Reasons Why People Quit Church
89Church isn't for everyone, even those with a pure heart, decent morale, and good intentions. There is another place where some belong, under the title 'Spiritual, but not religious' or 'Christian, but not Churchgoer'. People who feel connected to something greater, in a spiritual sense or God, but choose not to be affiliated with any particular brand of denominations or church on the market. I find myself residing here with more people joining me.
Many of us have tried our best, frequenting several churches to find a "right fit", only to become increasingly apprehensive of the church going experience. In fact, it seems to get worse the more we try to make church fit us. We even lose a little faith every time we see what it means to be Christian. It also makes me wonder how following God begins with and depends on a church. Some would say if you don't go to church, you must not believe in anything of the spiritual or religious nature. I say, 'that's too bad' and I'm here to expose the truth of why people have lost church, but sometimes not God.
I hope my message inspires those who can't find the right church for them or can't go or don't want to go, can still believe and communicate with God. It took me years of giving up on church and God before I realized I don't have to go to church to have God in my life. Nobody is less of a person for not going to church.
1. Missed out on Church 101
Nervously thumbing through the bible, pretending to know where anything is as my pew neighbor practically turns right to the exact page blindfolded with a smug grin, began my initial distaste for church. Was there a test I didn't study for- how come I feel so ill-prepared? Why do I always feel like an idiot going to church, worried about impressing the devouted followers and the pastor or preacher, but where is God in all this? Then someone makes a reference to a bible story and I'm lost all over again. Everyone around me begins talking of terms I've never heard, as if trying to outdo each other with saintly knowledge of the bible. If only they knew they lost me at the first thou shalt....
Many of us are feeling left in the dust when we go to church. Guess I forgot to study before I went, maybe I was too busy those years studying to get my college degree. "The dog ate my bible pastor/preacher." "A whale, a burning bush?" Are you talking about a Sex In The City episode?
When it comes to basic bible knowledge, those initially trying out church for the first time without prior knowledge are in over their heads. For them, it becomes too overwhelming and discouraging when other church members seem to look down upon people who are not well versed. When I've gone to church it seems everybody is quoting a verse from the bible. For some reason I can't remember a bible verse any better than I can remember a funny joke I was told just a minute ago.
2. Repetitive or dull songs
While many, possibly majority, of church frequenters enjoy singing, and are uplifted by the experience, there is an equally impressive number of us who don't enjoy it, or at least the songs. I don't want to hear myself singing, let alone granny next to me who is tone deaf- really no offense, but she is usually the one singing the loudest.
The hymns in most churches haven't been updated in God knows how long. If church music was meant to excite everyone enough to participate, then let's not leave out the rockers and rappers of most recent generations- we just don't feel included. This doesn't mean we don't want to hear others, more qualified, sing- that is very enjoyable. Maybe some of us would just like to sit it out and enjoy the music rather than participate, but it's taboo to sit out songs.
There are people who go for the sole purpose to hear a sermon and thoughtfully apply it to their lives. If singing were cut to a minimum, then we could sleep in a little later and go for a half hour church session instead. Actually I know people who arrive at church late to skip the singing part- ingenious!
3. Day of Rest
Didn't someone say Sunday is a day of rest, but you want me to get up early and dress up? I want quality time with my pillow and not think twice about my bed head. The thought of getting the kids ready and cheerleading everyone to church is exhausting. We want our day of rest. I don't want to get out of bed extra early to look extra churchly and put on my saint act and wear my best smile. I put on "fake" dress-up clothes that fashionably go with the "fake" attitude I feel like I have to put on too.
Really, the physical exhaustion is nothing compared to the brutal mental preparedness that goes on to create and maintain the proper definition of a churchgoer.Which brings to mind, does God think me less honorable for not dressing up for church? Maybe if we came as we are, then we would act like who we really are instead of putting up a fake appearance and attitude. Would it mean I'm less devoted if I wore jeans and a ponytail, wouldn't God want me to come as I really am? If God is inside us, why would he be concerned about what is on our outside?
4. Conflicting Evidence
There are a lot of good people who don't go to church. We put in a helping hand when needed, we participate in random acts of kindness, and we don't pretend to practice what we preach. Have you ever seen the devout in public at any given time, especially on a day other than Sunday- or even Sunday afternoon after church? They have two lives, one in church and one definitely outside of church.
Church has left a bad taste in some of our mouths from people who have purposely hurt us or wronged us and claim to be godly to the fact that there is conflicting stories and interpretations among religions and even within a single church. If a Monk can uphold almost impossible religious rituals without question to his faith or to make others feel less worthy, then a Christian can uphold general principles of Christianity without arguing the Book among each other and other religions. They can also be a good example within their community, instead of turning people off to their church by the way they act.
I'm simply saying that people should not seek church to feel as though they have done their good deed for the week, and they can act inconsiderately the rest of the week. Church should not be a sanction for them to feel better about themselves for having done numerous wrongs Monday through Saturday.
5. Thou Shall Not Judge
The feeling of scrutiny and judgment lie heavy upon many church goers- why must we have an extra burden dumped upon us? Everybody judges, but it spreads through a church congregation like wild fire. Do you get the feeling not all of your sins have been forgiven when you walk through those saintly doors? If God ever needs help on judgement day, he need not go further than the nearest church. It wouldn't be a tough recruiting assignment with all those eagerly judging folk. They try to enforce their views, politics, and parenting advice, among other let's-not-go-there topics.
In the well-known book, 'The Shack', a shocking statement suggested we should not even judge a serial killer. Now think about that a minute, but it's true. We have no right to judge that person because God may forgive him and we probably wouldn't. God knows our hearts and perhaps the serial killer was acting out of what he learned as a child from previous abuse. God forgives more than he judges harshly so why aren't any church goers following his example?
A personal experience for me was a time when I was trying out a new church by going to a women's bible study group. I had never been to the church, but it was where my daughter went to daycare before I was laid off. I told the ladies I was staying home with my daughter and all of them chimed in with 'good for you, doing the right thing by staying home with your child, good values, that's the right thing to do.. blah blah blah' and all I was thinking was I'd still be working if my boss hadn't cut me loose. But I am a woman of good values, I wanted to work and make a living for my daughter, isn't that also the right thing to do? They judged before I told them my whole story.
I also remember church when it was taboo to get a divorce. I remember because my mom had a hard time finding a suitable church for us to attend when I was a child and my parents got divorced. Sad, but true.
6. Work
There are many industries that don't close on Sundays or even weekends. For example, I was a waitress many years and worked on the weekends, especially Sundays because that was when I made the most money- money I needed to pay the bills. Sure, I could have prayed for an extra $100 from God and stayed home from work, but not to sound obvious and repetitive, I needed to pay my bills. I especially enjoyed the bad Sunday church tippers who turned their nose up to me because I didn't go to church.
Some people don't have a choice whether to work on that day or not. One job I had in the mental health industry, I was on-call, especially Sundays. Unfortunately that's life and even when it's not our choice, as in work situations, we are still made to feel guilty by the righteous mass who faithfully go to church.
7. Church isn't the Only Place to Worship
Nowhere in the Bible does it specifically state that a believer must go to church. There are places besides church where someone can worship and feel God's presence within them. I'm sure there is a verse in the scripture stating something similar about God residing within us no matter where we are. The church doesn't necessarily represent God, the people do, and wherever the people/believers are, he will be too.
Over time, church can dull the individual excitement and spirit of worship. Church is structured with a specific layout. No matter what church you go to, there is a general format that is followed precisely almost every week, following someone else's ideas of worship and catering little to individuals or breaking away from routine. If church doesn't get you excited, you shouldn't go.
8. Creepiness Factor
Why is it the more mentally ill a person is, the more religious they seem to be? I've worked with and been around my fair share of the mentally ill and religion can get pretty weird if you listen to their 'testimonies' and the way they "talk to Jesus". The extremely mentally ill, such as schizophrenia and bipolar, are irrationally fearful people and religion claims to 'save' people so I believe it is why they are attracted to religion and it's promises.
What about the catholic priests and the molested boys- some rumor, some not and that is definitely creepy. I think this is a prime example of religions' restrictions. People feel they have to hide their true selves in order to be accepted by the church, and sadly the restrictions can cause more corruption and lure of the forbidden (sin) behind closed doors.
Religious cults; preying on the vulnerable who may wind up joining a cult. Others are power hungry and opportunistic, and they are the ones that form and/or lead a cult. The two feed off each other and create cultural and moralistic havoc. Any church that offers an escape from reality is not going to benefit anyone no matter how dire their current circumstances may seem.
9. Point of View
"The secret of success lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from their angle as well as from your own, " Henry Ford. How many church members, missionaries, pastors, priests, etc. truly see from the non-believer or sorta believer's point of view. Not many, if any. A congregation sees only the one way to live/believe. They approach it in their typcial narrow-mindeness as they must get the other person to change, not find change within themselves to help the other person.
The main goal is to convert "others". They don't pretend to understand there are ways in between or tolerate the incessant questions that arise from those on the fence about religion. Missionaries are important for spreading "the word" but they would do best to understand the others' point of view as well.
10. Unanswered Prayers
"Every act you have performed since the day you were born was performed because you wanted something," Dale Carnegie. This is human nature and a mother knows this best when she has a baby- babies are pure wants and needs. Even making a donation and being charitable has a pay off for you- you feel better after you give and you like that feeling so you may do it from time to time depending on how often you want that feeling.
Church gives some people what they want- some go to learn, to socialize, and to get prayers answered. We expect and believe one time or another our prayers should be answered. When they aren't, some people will justify the reason for an unanswered prayer and others will lose faith. Faith may be intangible (that's the point) but we all need something to grasp to keep that faith. Enough unanswered prayers or sometimes just one prayer (or bargain) with God if he does just this one thing for you, then you will never doubt him and become devoted to him everlasting. If prayers go unanswered, then there is no motivation to believe if we don't get what we want.
There are several benefits for believing in a religion and/or spirituality itself. These benefits are reflected in our physical and mental health and have even been tested and recorded in psychological studies. The unanimous verdict is that someone who believes in something, of religious or spiritual nature, show more positive and healthy activity in their brain, which may also help you live longer and happier as well. However, this does not pertain to going to church, so believers can reap these benefits without the hassles of going to church. Often times people give up on religion and a spiritual life altogether just because they don't want to go to church, but church is not indicative of believing. Church isn't what makes someone happy, it is the power of believing.
Suggested Reading
- In-Home "Organic" Churches
Over 1 million Christians leave the institution of church each year, reaching a staggering 112 million reported Christians that do not attend church. An even higher number do not attend church regularly. These numbers speak volumes about a growing tr - I'm going to Hell!
I went to church today. I had never been to a real church before and thought it was about time. Id been to a fish fry once, and they said a prayer but I dont think that counts. It was an odd...
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You had some good points and good hub! We had a woman who was leading and into almost every aspect of every group at church. Then, in front of two 80 year old women, she confessed in tears, that on the rest of the week, she's the state secretary of the local nudist colony. Interesting, since she was always gossiuping about women who showed too much cleave at church. LOL
Jerilee: That's a funny story and I feel bad for people like that lady because they are not living a truthful life and some people feel like they can't be honest at church, which is too bad.
countrywomen: I think we share some of the same thoughts on the big picture and getting into heaven. etc. Glad I could give you a laugh- the sleep thing is my biggest excuse. I'll take sleep over anything!
I totally agree with you on this one.
This one really hits home for me. I was an active part of my previous church for seven years. I was even a choreographer and teacher for the dance ministry there. My husband and daughter got baptized there; I got married there. Now, my husband and I have both been gone for several months.Our beliefs have not changed. I never had a problem with the concept of 'Lord and Savior'. I still consider myself a Christian. However, I'm at a place in my life right now where I'm not real anxious to return to church. I just want a break, particularly from the responsibility of ministry. My pastor always said that "ministry is work; good ministry is hard work". I believe him.Seven years later - I just want to spend some quality time with my pillow, too.
Deidre, your pastor was right. I admire people who can put forth the effort and be committed to the responsibility of ministry. Not going to church for most of my adult years hasn't changed my beliefs or values.
Sunday doesn't neccesarily have to be the day of rest. I think of saturday as my sabbath just to keep my schedule clear and relax and that is how I "keep the sabbath" because more foten than not I am not relaxed on sunday with all the stuff that I end up doing. so I take a different day for my day of rest, much like a pastor whose sabbath is usually monday
Good approach suchsweet thunder!
Izetti, you've written a good hub that really hits the nail on the head about judgmental attitudes in the church. I am a regular church-goer, and am glad to say that the church I attend really focuses on acceptance and not being judgmental. Unfortunately, having attended many different churches in my life, I know how rare it can be to find a church with that perspective.
Our church has understood that some people go to church to worship and be uplifted. Others go because they are at a point in their lives in which they need inspiration and hope. Not one of us has ever gone to church thinking, "Man, I really need some judgment heaped on me today!" None of us are fit to judge anyone. Jesus said for us to love one another as He has loved us. He said nothing about us judging each other.
Thank you for the hub you've written. It speaks volumes about the hurt people can sometimes inflict on others without meaning to. Every church-going believer who reads your hub should really reflect on it.
Deacon J~ You bring up a point that everybody needs to remember; there really is a suitable church, I believe, for everyone. It is like finding the perfect mate, you have to match your ideals and expectations with that of the church's. Just like it is hard to find a perfect mate, it is also hard to find a suitable church. You are lucky to find a church you thoroughly enjoy.
I don't think church is the only institution with judgemental folks. Any time a group or mass of people congregates, there is bound to be judgment- it's actually a natural human characteristic. Although the expectation of going to church, for some, is that they will not be judged and the let down occurs when they are. Of all places to be judged, I think church is not the place it should occur.
Thank you so much for your comment.
I totally understand your point of view! I do believe that there is huge problem with most of our churches today. They get holy and traditional confused. One hundered years ago people went to be at 8 or 9 and was up the next morning at 5 or 6 and there fore it was easy to attend church.
The problem came when the church tried to quit reaching culture. I pastor a small traditional church. But we are changing rapidly which has ticked a few people off. But I believe we are suppose to go out and not expect everyone to come in that Biblical. Church is huge and when people get plugged into a place where they can belong it suits them. By the way everyone is looking for a place to belong. Our church is not there yet but we are heading to a place where the people who has baggage will fit. Oh I forgot heck they're already there!
I came to this sight because I am fixing to preach a series on why people don't stay at church. We are calling it "The Dechurched".
Yes, people want to belong and feel like they belong. It's hard to reach so many types of people and cultures out there and please everybody. The long time attendees tend to be judgemental and impatient with the new comers, and the new comers are put off by this non-welcoming attitude.
I have been to churches where there is too much fake welcoming and I've been to some where nobody acknowledges you're there. Striking a happy medium would be nice for all types of attendees.
Well it's good you preach to those who have baggage. I remember the days where those people had to hide their baggage to be welcomed into church. Things are changing in churches, but Overall I think as a country we are seperating from the church and community. It's too bad. I hope you are able to reach people and be helpful.
Allow me to direct your attention to a much better argument against church attendence, which explains passionately, and honestly why you are not going quite far enough.
Taliesin Hoyle~ "a much better argument". Well, ok, in your opinion. Interesting read, but a 'good argument' acknowledges both sides- that article did not. I'm sure plenty agree with those thoughts because they don't know how to think for themselves and believe in whatever they are told to (ie cults,etc). Some of these people are church goers, some atheists, but all sheep.
So which came first- the absence and lack of church influence in our country or the downfall of our soctiety's morale? I think it is good to believe in something as a country or a whole (what makes the UNITED States United)?. I do not personally believe in going to church to satisfy my spiritual needs. However, I think belief/church is great for society and the lost sheep of the world because it makes them accountable to their actions. Not everyone knows how to think and make decisions for themselves and these people arelost. I'd rather them go to church than a number of other more harmful possibilities. You have to admit our society has gone downhill with lack of accountability and responsibility for our actions. Religion, for some, is like a conscience.
Research supports two scientific bonuses of 'believers'. People who believe in any religion or 'something' report being happier and healthier AND live longer! The other being the effect of prayer- groups of people getting together to support someone during a hard time is powerful if only for the placebo affect. Groups are more powerful than an individual. Even Hitler needed an army.
What do you believe in or are you a lost sheep too? Do you believe in facts and statistics because those are disproven and modified every day.
I really mourn to see so many turn from church because of what they see as the hypocrisy of those who regularly attend church. I would invite you to seek out a relationship with Jesus Christ and find your true peace in that. Don't allow sinful men and women to turn you against the only One who can save you for eternity
Steve~ Just because one turns away from church doesn't mean they have turned away from God. I was taught growing up that you become, or are strongly influenced, by who you hang around with. For some, church isn't a good place to hang out at because there are many devout church goers that do not practice what they preach. Church seems to draw in people who like to judge. I think a more pure relationship can be achieved without all the politics and hipocrits.
Please tell me in the Bible where it says you must go to church.
izetti-I too am from the Great Northwest. I am now a pastor of a new Lutheran Church in Southern AZ. As a person trying to help people experience God, I appreciated your thoughtful response. I am deeply saddened by the state of churches in the US and by the individualistic culture that is so ingrained in us that we do not even see how it shapes our own thinking. God's people have been here before and always with dire consequences. You most recently asked where does the Bible say you must go to church. There is no ONE verse and this is no short answer. Matthew 18:20 says, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am." God reveals himself in many ways...but he specifically promises to be present in one way (the Church, ecclesia, gathering, assembly, whatever you want to call it). So Paul, who once killed Christians, wrote about submitting ourselves to Christ and the Church, AS the Church submits to Christ (Jesus Christ is God's Word made flesh - John 1). It's finally about our relationship with Jesus, individually AND together. Later in John 3:16, John writes that "God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John is writing, "so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God" by the way). Another note: Many of Jesus' followers gave up their earthly life for the faith they professed.
Without God's revelation of Jesus, we are like sheep without a shepherd. Even as a pastor (which means shepherd), I recognize that Christ is the true shepherd of our little church in AZ. God has promised and has continually worked through (and in spite) of those who gather in his name (Acts 2:42-47). So we are all of us on a journey, led by someone/something...but one thing is sure...this life will end...so is this all there is? God's Word clearly suggests otherwise. So back to the journey, the Bible makes it clear that people can be easily misled (Adam and Eve, the Israelites in the desert, in the promised land, in Babylon, back in the promised land, in the presence of Jesus, in the church...need I go on?). So 1 Peter 5:8 warns, "Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." A lion hunts by separating out the weak ones and attacking them. Some may ridicule the notion that the devil is imaginary, but God's Word makes it clear he is not. So my point is that a church only has authority to the extent that it seeks to submit itself to Jesus and God's Word, even as each member does the same. We do this imperfectly, but as we do this together, we forgive each other, just as in Christ, God has forgiven us.
izetti, I am sorry. I am sorry for everyone who insulted you in the name of Jesus. For everyone who judged you or made you feel less than the beautiful child that God made you to be. I'm sorry for every pastor who "phoned in" a worship service and made it seem like it was not worth your time (I admit it is difficult to keep it fresh every week). It is sadder still, since the Church needs caring, sensitive, strong people who know who they are and who Jesus is and who can truly help others in his name. It seems like few are left who are willing to die for their faith. This generation has lost its faith in faith. We have seen too much Nixon and Vietnam, too many empty promises and lies. We place our faith in government and science and wonder why there is no hope anymore. We continue to try to create God in our own image and wonder why he no longer appears to us. And we try to look behind the curtain and see God where he has NOT promised to reveal himself. We have forgotten God's Word, and I am convinced that no one even knows what the Bible says any more, let alone what it means for our lives today. Scripture has become a weapon to attack and judge other viewpoints.
May you find many blessings on your journey and may the light of Christ, our Lord and Savior, illuminate your way...Again, I truly benefitted from and appreciated your honesty and your insights. If you took the time to read this, thank you for your time and respect.
StPat~ Of course I took the time to read it and process it. I do believe in good and evil. I don't believe people should put their faith in government or science. I explained in one comment above to TaleisinHoyle that I blame the fall of the country and it's state on a lack of true faith and one common religion. I like what chirstianity stands for and the intentions of the Bible's teachings, but too many, like everything else, have exploited it. Now fewer believe. I am glad there are people out there, possibly like you, that worship in a truthful and spiritual way.
One common religion? No faith in government, or science? Let me say this: the source of unification for the United States of America is a powerful and uncompromised belief in freedom. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly and freedom of petition! Never forget these freedoms and what these freedoms have provided; not only for this country, but for all of humanity.
Very Interesting! Here's one that might help: http://hubpages.com/hub/spiritualpath
I recently have had the thought and feelings that in ny church that divorced people are kinda pushed to the side or invisable.It seens that the upper crust the select few are running a secret church within a church.I really dont know if i want to go back there anymore.you think you have found a church home and BAM here we go again!HELP with any thoughts1
ib~ Americans have lost faith in freedom just as swiftly as they've lost faith in religion. Any union, including marriage, needs more than one aspect (freedom) to keep them together. "Freedom" is only words like a casual "I love you" in a relationship. It is no more carried out in actions than those that do not practice what they preach at church.
kimberly bunch~ I read your hub on this subject and I agree with most of your points.
steve~ In your situation, I would pick a very large church where you can receive the word of God, praise him, and be friendly without everybody knowing your business.
Another way is to attend a church that hosts or takes part in giving groups or classes to divorced people. That way you know they accept people of all backgrounds and circumstances. good luck...
izetti - what a relevant hub - I totally see your point! I do love going to church - when there's no service on and it's empty - it's great communion time with God :)
We can worship anywhere and everywhere. Sad to say many churches are turning off people because they fail to be what God intended these places to be, a house of prayer, and a refuge for the lost. Someone said, bars are more popular because you can talk to the bartender, while you drown your problems with your drink. Of course that's not the right course for anyone. I have been churchgoing for many many years,i like practicing Christianity rather than 'church-anity!
I can see that some individuals have lost faith in freedom; these people have lost so much faith in freedom that they are clueless as to what freedom even means. They unknowingly ignore the most basic of human rights in order to wish for their so-called "one common religion". Do you have any idea what you are saying when you wish for a single common religion upon 300 million different individuals? It's analogous to saying you support the abolishment of multi-party political systems, and the establishment of a single-party state under the probable rule of a dictator. Even countries with barely any political freedoms, countries like North Korea and China, are reasonable enough to not deny the rights to personal religious beliefs.
Don't you even know what freedom means? Freedom means you are allowed to write what you think without fear of prosecution, freedom means that you will never be under the ownership of another individual because everyone is equal, freedom means that you have the opportunity to follow your own religious beliefs instead of being forced to follow the religions of others. All these freedoms are garunteed for you so long as you do not infringe upon another individuals' freedoms.
That is the freedom that I speak of, not the shallow and easily-tossed-around term that you consider freedom to be. I only react so strongly because it is terrifying how a twenty-first century individual could possibly want a medieval standard of human rights in our modern-day society.
I think in my situation people dont realize that when we are thrust into divorce were still the same person and when we reach out to the church for help we dont want to hear (your doing a good job or hang in there it will get better) we want real help not per say good advice. If things get to heavy for them they seem to vanish; or its lets pray and then its go on your way and move onto the next basket case. GOD puts people together for reasons and some people are just to (perfect) for me.I just want to serve the LORD!
I enjoyed reading your article primarily because it reflects what the Church, which is supposed to be Christ's bride, has become.
Christians are to be the salt of the earth, but today there is little taste in that salt. We've become comformed to this world rather than allowing Christ to transform us from within. Most Christians don't understand how to actively work with the Holy Spirit as He works in us. Why not? Because false doctrine is being preached in many churches.
A suggestion for you-take it or leave it-seek Christ and not a religious experience or a 'church' per se. God rewards those who seek Him with all their heart.
thanks for the comments.
ib~ I don't hope for EVERYONE to seek the same religion, as I would not expect everyone voted the same political party, but we came to a majority vote and that's our politcal standing for now. There are other political parties out there, but majority favored a democrat. That's all I'd like to see for religion- a majority favorite- not forced upon people though. I'm just saying it's too bad that's not the choice of our country anymore. "In God We Trust" is what we built our country on and now we forget where our fore fathers got their inspiration from. If the president (a democrat- not multi party) can have influence in a classroom or in our country, then why can't a common religion have influence too?
steve~ I completely agree. There sometimes is a lack of genuine effort to truly help others in a church. Small churches seem to be more genuine, but there also seems to be more politics and judgment. I think the churches reflect what I see in our society today, and that is a lack of genuine communication and sincerity. That's why I've lost my faith in church, but not my faith in God. I do understand the "perfection" people try to protray in church and it bugs me just as much as when I see people go in debt to look perfect and have perfect houses, etc. For me, church has become superficial, just as our society.
hxprof~ your last paragraph is exactly how my relationship with God is. I somehow lose God in a church.
Thank you for your comments,its nice to know that other people have had similar problems,but also very sad.as born again beleivers we should all be united under God,not devided,how people get themselves into false religons,self importance,and just plain arogance is so self diseptive.
1. I didn't go to school because someone knew more than me and could turn the pages faster and acted smug(or was I just imagining that. I didn't go to to see my family because that act like hipocrites - they tell me not to smoke because it's bad - but do it anyway. so I'm not going to see them anymore. 2. I'm not going to work today because I want more pillow time - surely my boss will understand. 3. Not going to the doctors because he just wants my money. 4. not going to the grocery store because I don't really need to eat. 5. Not going to brush my teeth because who cares if I have bad breath. ( I can't smell it) 6. not going to put on deordant because I don't think I need it. Church is not about you wanting to go or not. It's about YOU NEEDING TO GO BECAUSE YOU (AND ME STINK) and we just don't know it, until someone says TAKE A BATH
That is one of the most convincing arguements/comments for chruch I've heard. You have a great point PASTOR JO ANN. BUT!!! church is about you/us/me on the INSIDE, not the outside. You speak of examples having to do with odor, appearance, money/job, and smoking- all outside. I am pointing out that one of my problems with church is it is about the outside and that is a shame- "look at me. I go to church so I APPEAR to be a good person, therefore I must be." For me (and others) church doesn't fill me up on the inside, the only service I am doing is for others to view me as a good person when I go. Ever notice the outside of churches are pretty, yet most churches are filled with gossip, judgment, and jealousy. I don't want to "take a bath" in that trash. Am I less a person for sitting in my living room viewing a service from my favorite pastor on tv? I prefer to "take a bath" alone.
Are you people serious? I am a christian but I do not go to church? Would you go to a doctor that says i am a doctor but never went to medical school? The world today is so caught up in materialism that we lose sight of the things that are really important. I don't see anybody complaining when the have to get up early to get the early bird special at the stores. Please if you are lover's of money and yourselves that falls upon you but please do not blame churches. We go to church to worship god and nothing else.
Chris- I agree the world is caught up in materialism and therefore need to prove their religion by going to a church building (a material object). I find that everything about church, including the people, make me lose sight of what's really important- my personal relationship with God.
Your doctor example is whack!! I wouldn't go to someone who put on doctor's attire and went to a medical center. Just because you get dressed up and walk into a church building doesn't mean you're a christian either.
I've had similar struggles with church. Donald Miller summed up my feelings pretty well in his book Blue Like Jazz, "The real issue in the Christian community was that it was conditional. You were loved, but if you had questions, questions about whether the Bible was true or whether America was a good country or whether last week's sermon was good, you were not so loved. You were loved in word, but there was, without question, a social commodity that was being withheld from you until you shaped up. By towing the party line you earned social dollars; by being yourself you did not. If you wanted to be valued, you became a clone."
Church is just an institution with a different set of rules to rise on the social ladder. Visible good works, maintaining your social image, getting in good with the pastor, keeping a smile on your face, etc.. At it's root, I think we all try to get ahead in any environment we're in. Chuch just has different rules to the game. In a business environment you get ahead by getting in good with the boss, in church, you get in good with the pastor. I remember a pastor who was trying to increase attendence at a new Thursday night service came to a young adult group meeting and said, "If you want to get brownie points with me you will come to the new Thursday night service". What struck me was that this statement wasn't questioned by anyone since it was just understood that this was one of the rules in the game. I'm tired of that game. I think the Emerging Church movement is trying to get away from this. Maybe I'll try that. :)
jhg~ reading your comment made me realize how much church reminds me of high school- a social competition. I would rather "do good" on my own pretense than to please a pastor or be a good church member.
You are right, people in general get this way in group and/or institution settings- it's natural. People don't question the leader (pastor, etc) and this is how cults flourish too- a thing called group think.
Good Hub.
I would add that too many churches think that their job is to make rules, control the flock and tell their members what to think. I think a church's only function is to inspire their members to form their own relationship with God.
Try some of the newer, independent churches. No need to look at the world through stained glass windows.
Will Benson~ great point. inspiration versus control.
What if i really want to go to church but i'm trying to find a church where I can fit in? I cant make friends with them and the worst thing is I'm afraid of them. I'm still looking for a church. I actually believe in Jesus last year. It seems difficult for me to get a friend in church. I started to ask myself whether I'm an Asperger!
yew yee~ I would beign going to a church where you first like the pastor/preacher and the lessons/sermons taught. Friends and community will come eventually. Church isn't about friends- there are many more aspects to decide on before you find the right one.
I don't agree with some of your points.
How can you rant in #5 about 'judge not others' yet you judge people with mental illness as creepy in #8?
That's a double standard.
Also- you need to realize there is more to the sex scandal than is told. The APA was forced to removed homosexuality from their medical guidelines in 1973 under force of gay militants. There is proof out there that it exists, the removal was done without proof the disorder- does not exist. That is why- the preists were never attended to.
There is an organization out there that treats such people who need it, they operate quietly.
My point is- not having some spiritaulity to oneself is more dangerous than having some spirituality.
When I go to church, I don't sing. That's not an excuse- not to go either.
Sex in the City is feminist trash too.
Sounds like you need an excorcism. Worst article I have read today.
Hi "ME"
Glad you read my article- sorry to disappoint you. Is it really judgemental when I say that mental illness and religion is a creepy combination. The creepiness factor is less judgement than an eery feeling you get when something isn't right- you can call that intuition and a great thing to have because maybe it's helped me avoid bad people and situations by getting that creepy feeling.
I don't pretend to be non-judgemental as do many people in church. I don't pretend to be something I'm not.
If you read correctly I AM spiritual. As for the priests, there is always more to the scandal but I'll tell you exactly why it occurs-simple psychology. If I tell you not to think of a purple elephant right now, what's the first thing you will think of? Yes, a purple elephant. Dieters experience this too- don't eat any chocolate cake- what's the first thing they'll want? Priests are held to impossibly high standards as in many religions- some do just fine and others can't ignore their impulses, but everyone should be able to recognize right and wrong- no excuse. You say I need an exorcist? I'd say those nasty priests need one more than me rather than you actually spending a whole paragraph on justifying their major issues. Sorry if that sounded judgemental.
At least we agree on something. "Sex in the City"- never watched it. Sounds like you know more about it than I do. I just referred to it in my article as a joke. I know the premise of the show and that's why I used it jokingly.
Izetti, I totally get what you are saying. I think it's hard for the church crowd to truly connect with the concept of having a strong faith in God and a spiritualy-based belief system, without going to church. I stopped attending church several years ago because I had come to the place that I could no longer filter away all the fluff of the church experience -- I find I do better spiritually without it. It really has nothing to do with specific people there -- it's the whole paradigm that defines contemporary church that I find so distracting and unappealing. I don't even refer to myself as a Christian because I don't like being identified with modern Christianity. I don't want to live under the pre-defined label. I just want to be known as Doug. Could go on and on. Are you on Facebook or Twitter? I'd love to stay connected with what you publish. On Facebook I am Doug Rudnik. Thanx!!!!!!
The true Biblical definition of Church is the assembly of God's called-out ones (called out of the world). but today we see so much worldiness in the church. People go to fancy buildings to be seen in their nice clothes. they won't talk with you if you aren't part of their clique. It's a program put on by men, where the Holy Spirit can't get a word in edgewise.
Doug, all those things are exactly how I feel too. I feel more spiritual without church. It is a rare person that can separate all the "extra stuff" that goes on in church from the true message.
Patricia~ I picked up on the clique thing when I went to church in high school. THe pastor's kids were the worst snobs at high school.
The Bible sets the principle that the believers should meet on a regular basis. Act 19:41 And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the assembly.
Act 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Day of Rest is not your day nor is it my day,it belongs to God.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
The day of rest is the Lord's Day. He did suggest we keep it Holy,he commands us to and he place a penalty on it for all those that violate this command.
I do agree that there are too many singing in almost all the churches and i know a church that people sit for two hours listen to sermons and at the end they wanted more. Just look at that. Ask me a question I am always here to help.
Keith Risden~ good comment. i would be one of those churchgoers who would love a long meaningful sermon for 2 hours and skip the singing. I haven't found a church that does less singing, but mostly less socializing. I love that church is a suport netwrk for people but with a group of people,even in a church, the purpose of the gathering gets lost in the social aspect. It becomes more about the gathering than the lord. People quote bible versus to suit themselves (as in the Church of Suits Me). I've heard a bible verse that many people give as a reason to punish their children physically. everyone can read the same book and get a totally different meaning and experience.Your bible verse about the day of rest well rest for me isn't waking myself and my 2 yr old up extra early to get dressed up and everytime my daughter goes to the church daycare she gets sick and then I have even less rest. also I think too many people misunderstand that as being a holy person one day a week and not care the rest of the week.
I don't think you can ever really find total ultimate truth just chit chatting, reading posts, arguments ect...If you really seek the truth about something, with a pure heart and mind ask God what he wants for you personally and at the right time he will reveal the right answer to you.
Wonderful hub! Rated up and useful!
You have hit on so many valid points here.
I was particularly struck by what you said about the creepiness. As one who was raised (from a baby) in what I now understand was a cult mentality, I feel very lucky to have escaped without ending up in a mental ward with the label of schizophrenic. I have added a link to this hub from mine as I think those who find my story useful will benefit from reading this hub.
Here is my hub in case you are curious:
if you can't set aside your pride, some time, and making every excuse there is for not serving god all about you instead of finding every reason to not serve... then why would God find time to save your soul? why should your excuses matter to God when it's obvious you don't care enough about your self or your own soul. He Gave us all direction and just what everyone wants... a choice. It's all up to you. Do you want to spend life in hell or heaven? do you really want to take a chance on whether or not there is a Heaven or a Hell. If you try putting God first just for a short time... you will see just how much ex-tra time you have to do more things, how much less worried you are about things ( less stress), your finances aren't so much in dire straights anymore., ect.. think about it!!!!!! just try putting God first and see how your attitude will change. Then and only then will you break through your stubborness and unbelief and recieve the peace and belief you will need to have a wonderful life on earth, which will lead you to life eternal. God bless
lisa~ interesting comment but it proves my point about churh goers being judgemental about non-church goers. Because I choose not to go for various reasons- and most of those reasons are the self righteous curch attendees themselves- you have now told me I will goto hell and God will not bestow his favors upon me because I am selfish. When iN fact the only way I have found peace with God and ever became closer to him in my adulthood was by not going to church. So basically you are saying God does not have time for me, or wants to save me soul, or will help me out unless I go to church and the only way to show that I put God first is by attending church. It seems you are going to church to help yourself and that's not putting God first. You are more concerned about eternal damnation than your relationship with God.
Interesting hub. I quit church a while back for many of the reasons you cite. I found the hypocrisy intolerable. I met some beautiful people that attend church, and some destructive ones. I wrote a hub about my experience of religious abuse.
I actually feel much happier not going to church. I found in general people in church were more judgemental than out - trying to convert people using fear etc. Good on you for asking the hard questions, that no pat answers can satisfy. I was told I was possessed by the devil when I suffered mental illness. That was the deal breaker for me as to why I don't attend church anymore - too many fruit loops messing with people's heads
secretmemoir~ Religion does attract the mentally ill and the judgemental. It amazes me how people can misuse religion and church. I just read your hub on your experience with religion and left you a comment.
Way to mix it up izettl. I have to add my two cents, maybe we have so many "Christian" denominations to choose from because Christ has been removed from "Christianity" in order to manilulate religion to suit the ways of the world true Christians are commanded to flee and avoid. Taking One Word and changing it to several denominations or interpretations is proof enough that religion isn't of God.
I see no evidence of Christ in mainstream "Christianity". Because of this I often question the validity of Christianity.
When I read the Bible I take it literally as it was intended back in the day and as such I see it completely different than mainstream worldly denominations who transform His word into a worldly religion used to manipulate people instead of enlightening and lifting people.
I've started a new hub where I am attempting to discuss the role of misplaced faith. I believe I can prove or support the fact that "Christians" put more faith in the ways of the world through blind faith in modern technology and medicine than they do in creationism and a perfect God given body and temple. I don't expect much participation because I believe my views are solid and sound.
You are right, religion does attract the mentally ill but it also makes people mentally ill and physically ill too.
According to the bible, followers of Christ will be healthy and joyful. Peace of mind and premium health will be the only evidence of Christ we can see or be aware of. If someone is sick, their faith is misplaced because a person with biblical faith will not be sick, so says the Bible.
I would like to be proven wrong, but I don't see it happening.
Great thread izettl. It is time to call people's faith in question.
Until mainstream "Christianity" is guided back on path, one is probable much better off avoiding the false doctrine's of denominations and the diseases associated with them.
True Cures~ GREAT points and i am looking forward to adding your hub in my list of must reads for tonight. I think my faith wavered a lot growing up around "Christians" because I saw how unfaithful in every sense they were. My mom who is a die hard Christian is also a chronic worrier and I often have to remind her to have a little faith- so yes I doubt Chritians on a lot of the aspects you mentioned. Christians will also say, "we are not perfect", I don't expect them to be perfect in every area of their life, just in their faith to God. If their faith in God is true, and true to the Bible (not various interpretations)then their faith should be "perfect". I can't wait to read you hub.
It sure can be tough to find a good church. I know for persecuted Christians in Asia or Europe, it must be really tough. They could get shot, arrested, tortured, disowned by their entire family, threatened, beaten - strange, but they go to church anyway. I mean, they even walk for hours just to have fellowship. That must be hazardous walking through a jungle before the sun is up just to get to sunday school on time. I wonder after a long walk like that, how selective that person would be about the music? I bet his prayers were answered just to make it to church without being harmed. I bet he was grateful to learn so much about the bible even though he couldn't keep up, but than again, he reads his bible every day since he doesn't own a TV. But he doesn't go to church because he needs to see results in his life, he goes because his sins have been washed away by the blood of Christ, and he's looking to that day where a great hope is fulfilled by spending eternity in heaven with his God. I guess it's all about perspective, right?
Robert Matheny~ It seems the Christians who comment on here are the most unforgiving of my topic. I present a real topic, like it or not. And I will still thank you for presenting a different perspective. Let me do the same for you with various scenarios- some simple some extreme, but all relevant.
If I am in a relationship and the man constantly has harsh words towards me- psychological abuse, should I stay because my relationship with him is better than other people who endure physical abuse? I should be thankful right? Would I enjoy that relationship if I felt I was just enduring and intimidated into it? If I am being mistreated at church by people witharsh comments, should I go anyway because things could be a lot worse? I thought the point of going to church was to be uplifted, not torn down.
EVERY church I have been to is a social gathering, gossip gathering, judgement fest, and guilt trip laden cluster of people who think it's more important that you go to church than live a decent life or act decently outside of church. You make a great point- the people I want to go to church with would walk through a jungle to get and give support and feel the holy spirit work in their daily lives. Maybe I have to walk through that jubgle because it certainly isn't in my neck of the woods. You know, you could have used an uplifting example for your comment and instead you used somethign to tear me and others down and give us that guilt trip you're famous for. Thank you for proving many of my points about christians.
You're missing a lot of points. If those less fortunate people had to choose between going to work and making money to feed their families or go to church, what do you think they'd choose. One of my points was that some people have to work on Sundays given the type of job and money.
What is the point of church? Is it about God, or is it about you? I like the topic, but I find your excuses highly superficial, and I think I've already proven that point in my previous post. When you say things like "it seems the Christians do so and so" - your being just a judgmental as those you've complained about. You seem really sensitive and thin skinned when you feel even slightly uncomfortable, could that be the reason you don't want to go to church? Tell me please, in your opinion, what would your ideal church be like?
Robert Matheny~
Church is as superficial as some of the reasons I gave for not going. What is church to you? Many church goers think because they go to church they are better, yet nothing in the bible states one must go to church. I don't think it's superficial that myself and many I know have been shunned and judged by church goers for various reasons- divorce being one. So if the several churches I went to shunned my mom for her divorces then and divorce occurs in 50%- 70% of people who get married, then they are doing a great disservice to people who really need a safe place to go. I give reasons that I was picked on in h.s by the pastor's kids who took drugs, but were praised at church. I'm a genuine person- my reasons I give are real and I believe I represent sevral other people too. My ideal church would be one where the (most)people are kind to you outside of church as well as inside. Too much to ask for?
I was a waitress for years to the after church crowds and why are those people the meanest of all my customers. Even as a waitress, off from work- off the clock, I still felt I represented public courtesy and I was friendly to people in the general public so why is it I should not expect church goers to represent their church and their faith by being nice people outside of the church walls?
For me personally, I feel I am closer to God without church. When I go to church something about the highly social atmosphere gets me separated from the real reason I am there for.
I am probably more sensitive now than I was in the past because as the churches and issues arose and time went on, I tolerate less. If I don't feel good or close to God at church, then I'm not going for the right reasons. I'm jsut going to be going- that's superficial.
churh people are mean.
izettl – You always manage to make me smile! Yes, I agree with you. Your interpretation of church is beyond all disputes. I was a devoted church-goer for many-many years. I grew up in church – my parents were extremely religious – so during my unhappy marriage of 20 years church meant ‘being home’ for me. It was my escape from reality. But after I’ve left my husband (20 years ago) I became a hermit with no desire to socialize in any way with anybody. Of course I did not reject God. On the contrary, I got closer to Him. Nowadays my daughter ‘drags’ me to church, but I don’t mind, for I still enjoy the singing (lol) and the ‘messages’ delivered by the reverent. I do believe my grandchildren should (at least) know the 10 Commandments and Jesus’s Mountain Sermon, and they should know that they have to be thankful for having the opportunity to live in this universe that no man is able to create and maintain. I enjoy your writings tremendously and found this one on the list next to my latest hub, and I just couldn’t ignore it. Have a great weekend!
Martie~ I'll have to get over and check out your new hub. This hub has drawn all sorts of attention and comments, but that's the fun part. Yes, I agree to getting closer to God away from church. My mom 'drags' me to church from time to time and she goes mostly for the singing too. And I totally agree with you about kids hearing the stories and messages because ofr me growing up, it gave me choice. If you don't know, or never go to church, then you truly don't have a choice whether to believe or not. I absolutely want my daughter to have that choice and know about God. Thanks so much for your comment Martie.
Hi My names Becky, I'm a Baptist, I once went to this church a lomg time ago, They didnt help my familly I have friends that dont go to church, but they believe in jesus if anyone has facebook you should look up patty stahlhood shes a pentecostel she thinks she knows everything, my dad said they try to convert you someone should really talk to her
People often expect church to be perfect, but it can't be any more perfect than its members. I've been in many churches, from Baptist to Presbyterian to Mormon, and I've seen all sorts of people in each one, from happy and nice to grouchy and mean. You can always find an excuse not to go to church.
That being said, I'd like to comment on the "take me as I am" principle. Going to church is supposed to promote godliness in yourself. If you find yourself griping about waking up early, getting dressed up, getting the kids ready (I'm guilty), interacting with people who sing poorly and loudly, what's likely needed is a change of attitude. When I complain about those things (too much anyway; some complaining may be healthy), I don't improve. When I sense that the issue is about me, my church worship is fulfilling.
Regarding judging, we are purposely wired to make judgments about what's good and evil constantly. The trick is to make righteous judgments, and avoid condemning, understanding that you don't know everything about every situation. Here's a good article about judging: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=2548
Ultimately, I recommend going to church. You may have to search around for one that inspires you, but it's worth the effort.
technologyvault~ Your comment is probably the most sensible I've heard thus far so thanks for that. It's probably not all the wrong reasons that keep me, and others, from going to church, but rather all the wrong reasons that others go to church that keep me away from them. Some people feel better by going to church and that's great but I am not able to separate all the nonsense from the message or my personal relationship with God. Maybe I'm judgemental towards them but it's never me who invades their personal beliefs or their life, it is always some other person that does that to me in church. years of putting up with rude church folks after church as a waitress left a really bad taste in my mouth.
Thanks again for your comment.I will check out the article. I personally enjoyed the explanation of judging in the book, "The Shack".
izettl: Very good hub. I contemplate on it some more. You rightly list key factors the sour people on church. Your many responders verify these by their reflections. It's a sad state of affairs the nearly all church congregations and their staffs are either in a maintenance mode to protect their building and turf or are so focused on 'church growth.' Enough already!
I was once a pastor. It wore me out and stressed my family. I would not be a pastor again. Too many worldly expectations the "important" people of the congregations wanted me to support. Very Long hours. Short on rest and nurture. Made ends meet from our savings. Lived in a "glass house". We are non-active in any congregation now. I often think bartenders and waitresses do better.
I had become extremely active in church the last 7 years and was always teadering on burn-out. I had to be in church an hour early, worked either the sound or computer screen stuff and often had to stay late to make CD's of service. I was involved in other ministries and in mens groups. I couldn't enjoy worship service except maybe once a month there at the end and the last two month, not at all. I was too busy making church work to enjoy it. I was laid off last year so I had gotten so busy with church, I was there almost 7 days a week.
Thank God He got me a job in another state. I visited and actually enjoyed church for 4 of the 6 months on contract till they hired me perminent. Now that I've moved and could find a church to join permanently, I find I am so sick and tired of church and burned out from past experience, I just plain up and quit. I want nothing to do with it.
Second major cause of quitting is I'm so zombiefied by the atmosphere of church from going my whole life, I neither worship God nor pray in church. It's nothing more than repeatative heartless worship. I sing the words, nod off during prayers and mind wanders during the sermons when they don't keep my attention. The moment I leave church, I pop back into the real world and forget everything that was sung, prayed for and preached. I might as well have druken myself to a stupor and passed out... not every Sunday but many of them.
I read my bible and pray every day right now and God has my full attention (thanks, praise and worship) 7 days a week outside church but in church, I turn into a zombie. God has been getting an earfull about this subject. I've hid nothing from Him.
No more church... at least for now. I find nothing wrong with the people or pastors. I just need time away... a time to reflect.
Sherman, I don't know if you'll have come back to see if you get a responce or just needing to blow off some frustration and be heard like me.
I completely understand. I'm not a pastor but what I was doing involved working with him in getting the sermon notes ready for service every week. My pastor there who has now moved on to another church from Michigan to Colorado actually had a breakdown from doing too much. Our worship coordinator even had taken a whole year off. Even one of the elders, when his term was up started missing church for taking time to attend another church. For those of us who were being faithful, it was a lot of work. I was spending more time with church than wife who bearly ever went for working a service job.
I miss the people there but I was missing the people before I left because I didn't have time to socialize for all the service preporation and making CD's after church. As much as I hated Sunday mornings, I enjoyed helping out with the teens and this Young Life ministry in the local school.
Living in a hotel for 6 months took the last of my energies for wanting to get to know new people being around new people daily which has also hampered my going to church. I guess I just need some alone time for a while.
Sherman~ I often wondered how pastors dealt with the expectations. In a way, we do have more on Godly people. I can imagine the stress. There are politics in churches too as you mention "the important people". Thanks for thoughtful comment.
Ryan~ incredible comment. Thank you for sharing your story. I totally understand your "zombified" feeling. Church took away the personal closeness I had with God. My mom is very much involved in church and experiences burn-out too. I see this and guess I've learned from it. I'm glad to see you still have a relationship with God. So do I and find it better the less I go to church. Thanks again for your comment
Izetti thank you for the enlightening hub about church going or not? For me I gave up attending a church 15 years ago and I am all the better for it. I was sick and tired of listening to hypocrites with two faces, one for church and the other for everything else in their lives.
I am spiritual and I speak to God my way and we have a wonderful understanding of each other. I was a student of the Bible for many years, taught sunday school,prayer meetings, bible studies, etc etc etc blah blah blah.
I am so happy to be free of ORGANIZED anything especially religion. There are far to many spiritual actors playing their roles in churches, selling their videos, books, music and even assuring you leave with their TOLL free number so you can go right back to your home and order up their stock and make them richer.
I will stop here, I could say a lot more but I don't want to bring up the lovely dinner I just had. Peace and hugs from the saddle.
saddlerider~ sounds like you could write your own hub on this topic. You would have an even better persepctive than me. I was always a fairweather church goer because I struggled with the decency and "should's" of going to church but felt better and closer to God when I didn't. FOr years I thought I was the only one with this issue, but I've realized I'm not. Love your last funny comment there- yes, let's kep down your dinner. I feel like I've had bad dessert when I'm around many of the elites in a church.
Izetti, a beautiful Hub, full of good insights and wisdom.
What you seem to describe in all that is negative about church goers is also what I consider to be the root of all evil -- namely, ego (the heart of selfishness).
And by the way, _all_ prayers are answered. No exceptions! The only discrepancy is in the way people ask. The way to understanding is through self-awareness.
THanks for the comment lone77star!
I'm coming back to this one more than once. Really enjoyed your responses as much as the hub - thanks for a great hub.
DavidPrice~ some people get the wrong idea about this hub, but it was written in honesty and some personal, some not, but just things I've hear from other people. THanks for the comment.
You are probably far closer to any form of a God like being when you sit with your back against a good old solid oak tree on a high place and gaze out on the world and all its faults and wonders.
The gathering together in a place of worship that sits idle most of the time appears to be a complete waste of not only time, but of a perfectly good building that could be put to better use.
I understand the feelings that are laid out in this hub, being sent off to church regular as clockwork from an early age, because you had to be seen to be doing, and being made to feel guilt if you did not go.
Like many such institutions there was always the unofficial governing/controlling clique, ever ready to pass judgement and lay down the rules both real and imagined, and if your face did not fit then heaven help you. ( no pun intended ).
I have come across so very many "born again Christians" who outside of their church and fellow devotees were any thing but.
Rank hypocracy, it is there in all its forms and with it the pigeon hole mentallity that assigns people to this box or that, because your accent or clothes or neighbourhood or your job mark you down in their eyes, who needs that?
If you believe, truly believe in a God, you dont need all the trappings, parasitic hangers on, pious fools, goody goody do better than you folks, all you need is a bit of yourself in a time and place of your choosing to pray to or curse against whatever diety you align with.
If you are in basic a decent fairly honest person who holds no strong biggoted views, then you do not need a church to profess your beliefs, others will recognise that decency in you by your actions and the way you interact with others.
Go forth in peace, and to thine own self be true.
Briton~ I am just amazed at your thoughtful comments. I was ruled by guilt for years because church was a "habit" like taking a vitamin. I did not know nor feel God until I stepped out of a church. So many people are leaning this way nowadays.
Thanks for the comment.
I have to agree with pastor Joann. We stink, but we must follow the advice of Apostle Paul said in Hebrews 10:25 Some people have gotten out of the habit of meeting for worship, but we must not do that. We should keep on encouraging each other, especially since you know that the day of the Lord's coming is getting closer (CEV). Church worship is a must for an average church christian today. Keep searching for a church that is right for you.
I have been in many churchs and I have find out that there is no perfect church. When I or even you enter in a church the church is not perfect anymore. Imperfect people makes up and imperfect church. Therefore, it is great thing to go to church because you can take the good experience and add that to your life and discard the bad experience that many of us will encounter.
Always remember to activate the three Stewardship principles in your life:
1. Stewardship of Time: Keep the God of time in your time.
2. Stewardship of Treasure: God is the one who give you the power to get wealth.
3. Stewardship of Talent: God want you to use your skills for his glory.
When I study these three Stewardship Principles and put them in practice in my life, my whole view about church changed. If you study Stewardship, watch how your life will change. Now I go to church to please My God and not to please man.
drumboy~ thanks for your comment and I really like the 3 stewardship principles. I drift away from things that make me feel more distant from God and many churches have just made me lose sight of the main focus. Maybe that's something I need to work on. I worship early daily in my own ways, whether that's saying a prayer, reading a Bible or even watching a religious program. Thanks again for your comment.
Wow - what a lot of comments!This is certainly a thought-provoking hub.
Both of us are regular church-goers, although we don't attend the same church.
The problem with most churches is the people who attend them, and sometimes WE are those people - yikes!
Pat started going to church when she found a church that held services at 6pm on a Sunday evening. Sadly those are far and few between.
Pat's grown-up son only likes church with NO singing - again unusual.
Tricia's grown-up daughter only likes church with LOADS of singing and preferably a band.
For many people, either of those kind of services would feel 'unchurch-like'.
I guess the main way to be a "good" Christian is to try to maintain a focus every day and not save it up for church.
Thanks for a good hub.
2patricias~ I like your comment because I can realte to Pat and her son. Now I just need to find a church with night service and lack of singing. For me singing in public is embarrassing and I hate feeling that way especially in church and I hate that if I don't sing, then people will react negatively to that.
I just go or (don't go) wherever I feel Jesus and God the most. Sometimes that's praying every day or watching a Christian program with wonderful sermon.
I loved your last statement there- well said. Thanks for your comment and contribution to this dicussion.
Many thanks to Izetti and all those who have commented. I have just discovered Hub Pages today and found this thread fascinating. I am a British national, somewhat high on the humanist/rationalist/agnostic/atheist spectrum, and do not believe in the Christian (or any "god" for that matter) you allude to. I was an attendee at a Methodist church in my early years and enjoyed exposure to the scriptures but considered them in the end to be no more than a mixture of myth, history, wise words, philosophy, etc created for a multiplicity of purposes - education, control, shared values, posterity, conversion, submission, and domination - authored by human beings, inspired by human beings and consumed by the same. I do not believe in the strident and shrill atheism of a Richard Dawkins but in a gentler, questing form of doubt...my nature is that I am seeker of proof and nothing I have read on this hub (or others in a similar vein) convinces me of God's existence. All the arguments I have ever read or heard for the existence of the type of god in which Christians believe, now leave me cold. I am not without a spiritual side and believe in compassion, good works, charity, doing people good rather than bad turns (my Methodist background and exposure to the bible and other religious works has had an impact!). Pascal argued that if you had a choice, it was surely better to believe in the (Christian?) god, as the alternative was certain oblivion at death. However, I cannot doubt my doubt and can't find the faith to bridge the belief gap. However, forgive my temerity for joining your hub but I enjoyed the experiences described and viewpoints expressed. Let's hope the significant powers that be in the world continue to tolerate differences of belief and non-belief. May yr God be with you and give you the strength to deal with the travails of life and treat those around you well and with respect.
mackeroonie~ Thanks for your participation in this discussion. This hub has gotten a lot of interest from all sorts of believers, non-believers, in between-ers.
For me personally it was exactly when I stopped attending church that I found God. I found a much better realtionship that whenever I try to go to church. By not going to church it takes the pressure off me to feel like it's a chore, which is the difference in believing and not. When i go to church I start asking myself the hard questions about Bible stories and elements of religion and I start turning toward my logical side which squashes my feeling and spritual side that finds it easy to believe. Since there is no proof for either way of belief (or non belief) then I choose to follow my heart, feelings, experiences, and gut instinct. Logic has let me down. Being involved in science for a few years versus being a mother and hands-down the feeling part of me always triumphs over the logical when it comes to being right. When I dissect anything too much, they even do this in church, it loses it's value.
My goal with this hub was to get the point across that church isn't for everyone because of various reasons ,there fore it doesn't mean we have to stop believing either.
I am a Deist. I believe in God but not the religions of man. I have stopped making excuses and even clarifications for those that have no idea about my belief system. I talk with God, I listen, and above all else I try to express moral behavior. Socially acceptable behaviors. I try never to judge, nor condemn. If I disagree with a person or behavior I admit I disagree and walk away. God will deal with them, I have no need to.
But, our society needs rules because if its size. And these I consider man's rules. If I disagree with them I may work to change them because I am a member of my society. I will not violate them for the same reason. I am my society, and my society is me.
I will not heed the rules of any religion, but I will follow the rules of society until such time as they either become frivolious r unnecessarily impinge upon the personal rights of the members of the society.
But when that society attempts to involk religious rules upon all of its members, then I will stand with God and reject and stop those types of rules.
Beege215e~ I agree with you. To be honest, I was in your position for several years then I came to enjoy certain lessons, verses, etc in the bible, but not necessarily belief in the stories. I think the Bible is inspiring, just not church as you probably can guess from this hub I wrote.
I believe society needs rules- eventhough I consider myself, and you are too I'm sure, a person who knows right from wrong don't need rules to tell you how to be a good person, there are many people who do- most of society does. L
Like I said, there are good lessons and things to adhere to in teh Bible and some of those are translated into our society as some of our rules, but I think that is good. It's a good foundation. Other countries have much stronger history than us and much of it is religious, including architecture. I don't think adopting a religion as a country is harmful.
For the most part, I agree with what you have to say and a appreciate your comment.
I'm now 75 and I've been a 'committed' Christian for more than 50 years. I have been 'outside the walls' of traditional Christianity for almost 40 years. I have never seen anything that comes so close to my own thoughts as the points made by Izetti.
I have been blogging for some years. It is said that there is a book inside each of us. I effectively finished writing that book on my blog a couple of months ago - it was at about the same time that I found Hub Pages.
I have a bit of a problem.
I have come to recognise that there is an enormous difference between the Christian RELIGION and the Christian FAITH. There are tens of thousands of committed Christians (including many leaders)who feel that they have been drawn away from the churches that they may have attended for many years. Many of us recognise that we are being drawn deeper into what might be described as the mystery and paradox of the Christian FAITH. We might describe this in different ways but for me it is a place beyond which any organisation with it's doctrines, traditions, rules and regulations can take us.
The real problem I have is that I recognise that we are all on individual journeys and we are all at different stages of that journey - and that the majority of 'Christians' (including many leaders)are NOT being drawn away from their churches.
But at the same time I have realised that over the last 7-8 years I have been learning so much about WHY people believe WHAT they believe as a result of often divisive, denominational theology.
I feel far more at home with agnostics and even some Atheists than I do with some evangelically minded Christians who think they have all the answers.
How can I share my thoughts here for example without upsetting the faith of those who are still on the early stages of their journey?
There is an introduction to my story on my profile with a link to my blog.
In "From Christian to Atheist" I have told something of the story of a former full-time minister - a sad reflection of the failure of the Christian community to find the right answers!
Granddad would appreciate your thoughts.
old Pete~ nobody, Christian or otherwise, ave the "right" answers. Supposedly the answers can be found in the Bible but those answers, and even the bible itself, can be interpreted in many ways- hence, various denominations. TO avoid confusion and hypocrisy more people are avoiding church. Since being televised christianity is getting a bad reputation and some christian minded people are not wanting to be associated with that. many ahteists and agnostics are very decent people and also do not want to be associated with the reputation of churches and christianity. I was like this, but found that I can be a good person and believe. I personally get side-tracked by all the "other" stuff in church. I lose focus of God.
One way to share your thoughts, I've found, is to have an open mind here. Establish yourself first. People on hubpages get to know YOU, then if they appreciate and respect you, they will accept your views and writing. This is just my personal opinion on here.
I believe you have a lot to offer. Your comment peaked my interest and is very insightful.
I've followed Jesus faithfully since 1963. Churching has been across many 'brands' in that time. Good and bad in each one.
Now I'm leaving the 'going to church' habit for good. Am quite weary of the gossip-mongering that starts with pastor big potato. I doubt I will ever trust another professional minister again.
Life is short - and Jesus is alive and reigning. I'll follow him constantly.
Seems he didn't have weekly meetings for his disciples - nor men's ministry, women's ministry, youth groups, Sunday schhols, etc. Seems they were free-range believers - and not all were at every event in our Lord's 3-4 yrs ministry.
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Good-bye "church". Happy birthday Jesus.
Izetti, Wow! What have you started? Wonderful piece with valid observation and natural conclusion or so it seems.
I've heard so much of this for so much of my life, indeed, from my own heart as it made the attempt to grow up despite my getting in the way. In all fairness, there are no ideas or feelings expressed within this thread that have not made an attempt to steal my heart. In response to the feelings which decorate this thread with honesty and passion, I am stirred to so much more than I can address in a comment box. Instead, though I've want for more, I will simply share a thought from which reflection may answer such inner contradiction. What if, church isn't about us?
A small potato~ I can relate to some of what you say. Thanks for the comment.
arb~ To me, church is about my relationship with Jesus and God. If what happens at church effects that in a positive way, then I'll go. If it effects me in a negative way, then I have to leave because I haven't found a way to separate my feelings in church from the way I'll eventually begin to feel in my relationship with Jesus and God. When I get backstabbed by people at church or feel tired and bitter for getting up so early, then it wears on my relationship with God. It all becomes a duty. I personally find that when I don't attend regularly, I read in my Bible more, pray more, and am more aware of that relationship- more renewed and happy in my belief.
okay folks back up. the problem with her argument is actually in the truth. the word Church is Ekklesia or ones called out- the Old Testament Temple which held the presence of God, because of Christ, now dewlling in the believer throgh whom the Holy Spirit which takes up residence upon conversion. The Holy Spirit taking up residence in the person is the church, not the people taking up residence in a building. The design was ultimately for a universal church comprised of all believers everywhere. Those believers are, according to Paul to "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together" for things such as teaching of the WOrd, prayer, fellowship, encouragement, etc. The problem is the dynamics of human interaction. Because though saved, they are stil human or clothed in flesh with sinful propensities. That's why we needed Jesus! In this human dynamic, some are newly saved; some working on it; some seeking; and some seasoned. That is a mix ripe for what the author here is speaking about. She writes not to judge but judges in her writing. She writes as if she has entered the door of every church and examined every Christian community. Our Church is ot like that. We actually don't practice many of those things that turned you off. Perhaps you couldn;t navigate through the Bible fast enough because of your lack of hunger to actually attend a class, bible study, or personal effort to understant it which takes time. For those who come to our church, we have new beginners classes and actually people in the pews to lovingly help those find certain books. We wear jeans or dresses or suits. People who drove a Mercedes sit next to the person who scraped bus fare to get there. How about a church like that. Dear, when you are saved you are saved into the church. How can you believe in Jesus and not become a part of what he established and died for "upon this rock I will build my church. " Yes, church, with flaws and imperfections of any human organism, but the difference is a savior to serpearate them fromthe fate of a sinner. If you are going to church for the right reason, you will find the right thing...which is the Word of God. You are so right in saying that many people skip the singing and formalities, come late to get the Word! Because that's what people want..understanding, meaning, significance in a practical, pourposeful, powerful Word. FInd a good Bible preacher who does that and don;t be bothered by all that stuff you wrote about. A good preacher will get you out of bed inthe morning!
Jay~ I haven't been to every church or claim to have gone, but I worked in science long enough to realize if I've been to well over 20 different churches and all ended up being the same of what I don't like, it's pretty safe to say from my perspective, the odds are church isn't for me.
You are right to say we are human and these issues arise form human nature so your church isn't exempt, it's just that you haven't had to experience being on the negative side of things or you are blind to it and maybe for exactly that reason- you haven't been gossiped about or other negative things. If people in my everyday life treated me the way people in church have treated me or people I know, then I wouldnt't put up with that either.
I always way the odds of going to church, but since it is a choice, if I get more negative out of going than positive, then why would I choose to go, especially if it compromised my relationship with God.
The idea of a universal church is a joke nowadays. Christianity is practiced in several churches of various denominations or names and each one "don't like each other". Oringinally when I witnessed the hurt my mom endured from being being a divorcee in the church, then the next church where the pastor's kids were bullies and addicts at my high school, I left God and especially the church for a long time. It wasn't until I realized I could have God back in my life but not the church. It's not necessary for great faith. I watch sermons of prechers I enjoy on TV and that motivates me without all the drama. Thanks for the comment Jay. I enjoy the conversation and point of views.
I put this on my FB page and clicked on 'like'. This is truly the most 'eye opening' article and ALL church going people need to read it and realize 'church' MUST change! THANK YOU for writing this!
Thanks macrobin~ I meant this article not as excuses people use to not go to church or only the negative aspects, but only realistic reasons people don't go. I'm glad you got what I intended. Thanks again for sharing it on your facebook.
Thanks for the perspective, I've experienced much of what you're saying and do my part to help others not feel this/that way. I'm so thankful that church doesn't have to be what we've all experienced in the past. I look forward to reading more of your Hubs. Keep writing izetti.
This was an amazing read. I enjoyed it very much. My old church could seriously benefit from this document, lol.
saintodd~ thanks. I know you're a pastor and I certainly don't believe my experiences are like everyone else's. I know many have had my experiences and I want them to know they aren't the only ones, but also they don't ned to abandon God if they feel they need to leave their church. THanks for your perspective as well.
lordraven2000~ I wish a lot of the churches out there realized how people feel- their members and ex-members. Thanks for the comment.
No prob, at some of the churches I have gone to not having enough cash for the offering plate would be one.
lorddraven2000~ Very good point. I forgot about that. I hope to find a church that gives me some of what I'm looking for- I sound like I'm shopping for a car- pretty sad.
Wow. This was an excellent article. I feel like you read my mind.
I've stopped going to church lately, which is weird, because I consider myself to be fairly religious. I wasn't sure what led me to stop going, and now I understand. I'll probably go back again soon; I think I just needed to know that I'm not the only one who doesn't have the bible memorized or enjoy singing hymns.
sunnyglitter~ well, you are definitely not alone on this. A church can't please us all, but there are some general themes that seem to chase people away. Taking a break is necessary, as with anything. Thanks for the comment!
After years of being scorn growing up and bitterly scorn by many in churches due to my being born to a mentally ill father who was brutally abusive to my mom and mysiblings. I have always had greatmental issues as early as I could remember . Growing up eventhough school officials told my mom repeatedly I needed serious mental care as well as my brother who lived a very sad and unproductive life as a sziphronic but at age20 he added some drugs to his mental problem and was permanently damage. After being a scorn and total outcase at school with no real friends..at age 18 while attending a business college I became determine to avoid rage and violence and my mother also more or less controlled me thinking if she kept me away from a social life with people my age and EVEN AFTER HIGH SCHOOL ALL i COULD DO WAS GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY. GO TO BUSINESS COLLEGE M-F, GO TOMY PART TIME JOB AND STUDY THE BIBLE AND LISTEN TO CHRISTIAN MUSIC. bECAUSE OF MY MOTHER MAKING ALL DECISIONS FOR ME ...I LACK GOOD JUDGEMENT BEIGN OVERLY TRUSTING AND LOVING TO ALL...I HAVE LEARN WELL THROUGH LIFE THAT YOU CAN TRUST NO MAN NOT EVEN ONE WHO PREACHES IN THE PULLPIT. ALL PEOPLE ARE ARE HUMAN NOT PERFECT AS CHRIST NO MATTER HOW HOLY THEM PROFESS TO BE THEY ALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE A LIAR, CHEATER, HATER, SCORNER AND NOW I NOT LONGER HIDE THE
FACT I WAS ABUSED AND POSSIBLY BORN WITH A MENTAL ISSUE SINCE MY DAD AND HIS DAD BOTH WERE VERY DISBTURBED. I HAVE HAD MUCH PROBLEMS WITH BLACK BAPTIST CHURCH AND THE SCORN FOR MENTALLY ILL BECUSE THEY FEEL THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE SINNERS AND MENTAL IS NOT AN ILLNESS. I LEFT THE CHURCH FOR YEARS AT AGE 20 WHEN I TRUSTED A YOUNG MAN WHO SAID HE TAKE ME TO MEET GOOD FRIENDS ....ALL I WANED WAS PLATONIC FRIENDS MY AGE AT 20 AFTER NEVER REALLY HAVING A REAL FRIEND ALL THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND BEING TREATED WITH GREAT SCORN BY SOME TEACHERS AND MOST CLASSEMATES. MY MOM HAD ALWAYS TOLD ME IF ANY YOUNG MAN ASK TO TAKE ME OUT, I WAS TO BRING HIM TO HER FOR CONSIDRATION AND I HONOUR THAT I BROUGHT THIS YOUNG MAN TO HIM AND HE WAS A VERY CONVINCING PERSONS WHO EVEN MY MOTHER WHO ACTUALLY WAS NO AUTHORITY OF MEN SINCE MY FATHER HAD BRUTALLY BEAT HER AND ABUSED HER FOR 14 YEARS AND HE WAS THE ONLY MAN SHE EVER WAS REALLY INTIMATE WITH AND HAD KIDS BY. SHE BROUGHT THIS DECEPTIVE YOUNG MANS ACT AND I WAS SO HAPPY TO THINK A PERSON MY AGE LIKED ME . HE DID IN FACT TAKE ME OVER SOME PEOPLE'S HOUSE A YOUNG MAN AND HIS MOTHER. I LIKED THIS YOUNG MAN AT THE APARTMENT A LOT AND WE SHARE THE SAME INTERST OF ART. ABOUT 10.00 HE SAID I HAVE TO TAKE HER HOMME HER MOM SAID SHE MUST BE IN BY 11:00. MIND YOU I WAS ALMOST 20 THEN. AS WE WERE WALKING BACK HE STOP AT A SCHOOL YARD AND IT WAS AN OPENING IN THE FENCE . WE DIDN'[T COME THIS WAY BUT HE KNEW THIS AREA VERY WELL. HE SAID WE WILL TAKE A SHORT CUT. I AM SO NAIVE I SAID OKAY AND WILL GET BACK FASTER THEN...HE TOOK ME IN THE PLAY GROUNG IN THE SIDE OF THE REC BUILDING AND BRUTALLY RAPE ME AND LEFT ME TO FIND MY WAY HOME I WAS COMPLETELY DAZE I FOUND MY WAY HOME THROUGH THE DIRECTION OF SOME YOUNG PEOPLE HANGING OUT BY A STORE,..I DID NOT TELL MY MOTHER OR ANYONE EVER...HOPING I COULD JUST FORGET IT BUT TO ADD TO MY MISREABLE LIFE OUTOF THIS RAPE I GOT PREGNANT WITH MY OLDEST CHILD WHOM I RAISED AND NEVER ABUSED HER BUT I SUFFERED GREAT GREATTRUMA BEHIND IT I NEVER TOLD MY MOTHER THAT AND I DID FINALLY TELL HER MY DAD HAD RAPE ME WHEN I WAS 4 AND UNTIL SHE PARTED FROM HIM WHEN I WAS 9. HE HAD RAPED MY OLDEST SISTER TO BUT SHE TOLD MY MOTHER IN AN OUTBURST WHEN SHE WAS 17 AND MYMOTHER NEVER WAS HARD ON HER FOR HER BEHAVIOR EVER. I WANT TO SAY TO ANYONE NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEVE ALWAYS TELL SOMEONE WHEN YOU ARE HIT BY GREAT AND PAINFUL SITUATION. I WORKED FOR 30 YEARS BUT LOST JOBS CONSTANTLY DUE TO HAVING A CONFLICT WITH PEOPLE'S PERSONALITIES . I WILL SAY THERE WAS ONLY ONE FIT OF RAGE I COMMITTED THAT WAS NOT DUE TO SOMETHING THAT INDIVUAL HAD DONE TOME OR SAID NEGATIVELY. I PRAYED FOR THE SPIRT OF RAGE TO BE REMOVED WHEN MY MOM PASS AND MY BROHER PUT ME THROUGH HELL USING HIS DRUGS AND NEARLY CAUSE ME,HIS SON AND MY YOUNG DAUGHER TO BE MURDERED. I WANTED TO KILL HIM FOR THIS AND MUCH MORE ...I FORGAVE MY BROHER BUT I LEARN FROM BEING TOO RUSTING IN THE FIRST ADULT RAPE, THEN I WAS RAPE BY TWO PERSONS I NEVER THOUGHT WOULD DO SUCH A THING A VETERAN DETECTIVE AND A MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR WHO SOEMIZED ME AND SAID I ALWAYS WANTED TO DO YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE PRETTY BUT I NEW YOU WOULDN'T DO IT WILLING BUT I WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT ABOUT DOING YOU. THESE HATEFUL WORDS HURT ME MORE THAN THE MOLESTATION ITSELF. I HAVE LEARN IN LIFE THAT IT IS REALLY NOT STICKS AND STONES THAT WILL HUR T YOU BUT UGLY WORDS THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T PUT A ICE PACK, A CAST OR A BANDAGE AND ITS SUDDELY GONE....UGLY WORDS ESPECIALLY FROM THOSE YOU TRUSTED CAN HURT MUCH LONGER
LIKE JUST BECAUE I WAS PRETTY PHYSICAL AND NAIVE WITH MENTAL ISSUE I WAS ONLY TO BE USEDFOR SEX. BACK TO THE CHURCH ISSUE AND HATING OF MENTALLY ILL. I HAVE CAME TO LEARN THAT THESE HATEFUL BELIEVES VARY FROM RELIGIONS. I LEARN THAT IT IS DEFINITELY NOT CATHOLICS, LUTHRANS BECASUE I WORKED IN MANY MENTAL HEALTH FACILITIES THEY CREATED FOR THOSE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS. HOWEVER, I LEARN FROM BEING RAISE IN BLACK BAPTIST CHURCH AND KNOWING MANY PERSONS IN PENTACOSTAL THERE IS A VERY NEGATIVE VIEW POINT TOWARD THOSE WITH MENTAL ILLENESS. WHEN MY MY DIED I WAS BAPTIST IN THE CHURCH UP THE STREEET THE CHURCH I ATTENDED MANY TIMES PRIOR TO BEING BAPTIST AND THEN THERE WAS A TRULY COMPASSION AND LOVING PASTOR , THE FOUNDER OF THAT CHURCH BUT HE GOT OLDER AND PASS AWAY. THE NEW PASTOR WAS GREAT INITIALLY AND HE BAPTIZEE ME IN 93 THE YEAR HE ARRIVE IN THAT CHURCH. HOWEVER, WHEN MY BROTHER LOST MY MOTHER'S HOME WE ALL HAD TO LIVE SCATER ABOUT AND I WAS THEN GETTING VERY SICK, PLUS I WAS CARING FOR OUR GRANDFATHER OF 92 AD MY THEN 10 YEAR OLD DAUGHER AND MY OLDEST GIRL WASY AWAY IN COLLEGE THEN. I HAD A HEARTATTACK AND I HAD NO WAY TO GET TO CHURCH SO SINCE I LIVED NEAR A BAPTIST CHURCH ONLY A FEW BLOCKS AWAY I STARTED ATTENDING IT
I WENT TO SUNDAY SERVICE,S UNDAY SCHOOL AND BIBLE STUDY. THEY TOO GOT A NEW PASTOR AND HIM AND HIS WIFE I FELT SUSPECT ABOUT INITIALLY BUT I NEVER WAS ONE TO SAY NEGEATIVE THINGS ABOUT SOMEONE WITHOUT REAL EVIDENCE.
ONE OF THE SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHEERS AND ATRUSTEE GAVE ME A RIDE FROM CHURCH AWAYS. BY THIS TIME I HAD WENT TO A MENTAL FACILITY AND HAND TAKEN VARIOUS MEDICATIONS. SHE WAS MARRIED TO A DOCTOR AND ONE OF HER SONS WAS TAKING A DRUG I HAD TAKEN SHE GOT TO TALKING ABOUT IT AND SAYING HER SOME WAS HAVING GREAT DEPRESSION AND THEY SAID HE WAS MANIC -DEPRESSION . FEELING SECURE THAT I COULD TRUST HER IF HER SON SUFFERED THIS DISEASE I OPENLY CONFINED SOME OF MY HISTORY TO HER. WHEN I GOT BACK TO BIBLE STUDY THE NEXT WEEK I AM BEING CALL A PITTY SEEKER AND THIS IS AWAYS WHAT THE SO-CALLED RELIGIOUS PEOPLE REFER TO ANY MENTALLY ILL PERSON EVEN WITHOUT KNOWING HOW THE HAD FAITH AND ENDURE THEIR GREAT TRAILS VERY WELL. AT THIS POINT I WAS NO LONGER HIDING AND I WASN'T GOING TO JUST BE CALLED PITTY SEEKER WHEN I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE LEAST OF ANY PITY SEEKER. I WROTE THAT PASTOR A DETAILED LETTER ADDRESSING THIS MATTER AND THEN IT STARED EVERY CHANCE HE GOT HE WAS INDIRECTLY SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT MENALLY ILL PEOPLE. SO SINCE I REALLY WASN'T BAPTIST IN THE CHURCH, I LEFT AND THERE WERE SOME OFFICIAL THAT BEG ME NOT TO DO THIS BUT I DID IT ANYWAY AND RETURN TO MY REAL CHURCH BUT I WAS IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING BECAUSE HE HAD CONVERTED THAT CHURCH INTO A FULL BAPTIST CHURCH AND WAS IDOLIZING THE LEADER OF THIS FULL BATIST RELIGION AS IF HE WERE THE LORD AND SAVIOUR OUR REAL GOD. ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE REJOINGING THE CHURCH AGAIN MY FAMILY HAD A TERRIBLE SITUATION TO ARISE MY NEWPHEW THEN 20 WHO WAS THE SON OF TWO DRUG ADDICT PARENTS AND HE SUFFERED GREAT GREAT ABUSE UNTIL MY MOTHER TOOK HIM AND WHEN SHE PASS I TRIED HARD BUT HIS FATHER TRIED HARD TO DESTROY US ALL BY INVINTING ALL THE DRUG USUERS, DRUG DEALERS IN THE FAMILY HOME WITH US AND NEARLY GETING U
What a story a. mccombs. I am sorry for what you've gone through and I can see how church and religion has left a bad taste in your mouth, so to speak. I have had several instances when I've lost my faith in church, religion, and human nature. i never lose my faith in God though.
You do have to guard your heart and be wary of the words of others- not to let them define who you are. Be easy on yourself, it's not your fault you were mistreated or had mental issues. Don't lose perspective either. I once read a book, "The Shack", and it gave me a differnt perspective about how God forgives and judges. It is not the way we do it. It is possible for him to forgive even the worst human acts, not saying there is an excuse, but everyone has a story and why they do what they do. You need credit for overcoming many of your issues and not repeating the abuse on your kids that you received as a kid.
I once dated a man who was the son of a preacher and O thought my mom would be proud because she was so religious. It turned out to be my worst experence ever- I was almost raped by him on our 3rd date. Thank God his friend stepped in and saved me. Ironically, his friend was a black man whom I was always taught not to trust when I was I was kid, by my parents.Since then, I've learned not to judge a book by it's cover and to be cautious no matter what. It's sad to not be able to trust even folks in a church.
I hope your story will have some happy endings too. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Why does the church care about what unbelievers think of church? Makes no sense.
The church is for the redeemed child of God who serve Jesus Christ as the Lord of their life. Unbelievers are welcome but not encouraged to attend. The church is not for unbelievers!
The author of this article is clearly an unbeliever. Who cares what they think about church it's not for them????
well spoken. thumbs up
Bryan~ uh duh! Are you kidding me right now? Churches are famous for caring what unbelievers believe- what about missions and missionaries. Those are geared toward "unbelievers" and sharing the word with those who don't believe. Read a little more here, my friend and BELIEVE it or not, I do believe in God, just not church. And read a little more of your Bible, not going to church does not make me a non-believer.
Can I use you "Bryan" as a reason not to go to church? Maybe I should write you into this hub. Sadly, I know non-believers who care more about others, believers or not, than you do.
You said, "Unbelievers are not encouraged to attend"???!!! What? I hope you like church because I'd rather end up in heaven. You can have your church I'm going to heaven and by the way you treat "unbelievers" not sure where you're going. God doesn't encourage that attitude toward others regardless of their beliefs.
P.S you're lucky I accepted your comment- it's righteously whack! And what made you think I don't believe in God- church is not synonymous with God.
Very interesting article. I understand and respect your views as shared in this Hub. I left the church for about 10 years because I felt pretty much the same as you expressed in this hub. The inner me wanted to go back but I kept telling myself the church is full of fake people and I wanted nothing to do with them. That was especially true with regards to the minister.
But I believe it was the Holy Spirit that got my attention. It asked me one question, that question was,"Why do you go to church.? I thought about the answer and I said, "to worship God." After it became clear to me the reason I go to church, I realized the preacher is only the messenger of the Word. The people and the preacher are all trying to find their way as I was trying to find my way. We all have short comings and we all do things we should not. We have one thing in common. That is to live our lives as best we can through our Savior. Thank you for your hub and for reminding me of how I once felt but now know I had a lot of learning to do. I am still learning.
6hotfingers3~ thank you for your comment and I agree with what you say, it's just I haven't been able to separate things yet. I haven't been able to separate how I feel about going to church and when it sinks in as a habit rather than something I am energized to do. I haven't been able to look past how others treat each other in the church compared to what I view as some of the worst attitudes and treatment in any place I've walked into. I used to work in a bar with occasional drunks and I never saw such rude people as I do in every church I walk into. You see, I believed, even when I work for a place or just the fact that I have a young daughter, I am always setting an example for myself and everything I'm affiliated with, including the Lord. But the worst customers I ever had while working the customer service industry was church folks after they got out of church- awful, unbelieveable. I know better and have found God in spite of them, but others don't see it that way. Those who were undecided on faith, just took what they saw from church folks, and decided they didn't want to be like that.
Do people walk into strip clubs without being tempted? some can and some can't. For me, I fear going to church and being tempted to partake in gossip and rude behavior if I hang around people like that. "Ethics are inseparable from atmosphere". If I don't do drugs why hang out with drug dealers? Since I don't partake in church gossip, I will not be around it.
I understand your view too and you are probably better for being able to separate the two, but for me, church still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I appreciate your comment.
izettl, I have to commend you on writing exactly how you feel - because I think there are way too many who feel the same way - yet the "Church" does nothing about it.
As you say, it is the "people" who make up the church. Not the Church that make the people.
Too often, we allow our religion to get in the way. I think more often than not, we allow our pride in our religion, or the fact that we are well versed in our religion, or the fact that "God talks to me - but I'm SURE He wouldn't bother to talk to you" attitude to override our concern for others.
I believe the purpose of the "church" is to gather together, encourage each other in our faith, to learn from each other and to share that with others.
Today's church does not do that. Sad but very true. I wish it did because there are often times when I could use that type of encouragement. It very seldom happens, and when it does - it's usually not someone from the church who makes it happen. Another sad fact.
I am actually reading this on a Sunday. Ironic no?
Duchess OBlunt~ THanks so much for reading this. Your words are exactly how I feel and many others as well. What you say about what church should do for people is so true. I view it as a "community" in itself with an opportunity to inspire and enrich people's lives, but too often I don't see that at all. Not only is that not present, but quite the opposite in a lot of cases.
I really wish more churches would open their eyes to this. It is sad, as you state. THat's how I feel about it as well. Thanks again for your comment and taking the time.
Great hub. More of us that feel this way need to be vocal and I thank you for being so. I too, have a hard time with Church and although I am not ready to throw in thowel on church for various reasons, I just don't think this is what Jesus had in mind.
I just can't see Jesus on the cross right before He died saying "It's ok, someday they will have million dollar facilites and wonderful multi media presentations. It's all going to be so good and visually stimulating."
victor2322~ I understand your point. I haven't made it to that point where I can overlook and not become part os the problem in a church. I feel closer to God by seeing Him verywhere else besides church- it's brought more variety and reminders to me that He is everywhere and can be worhipped in much deeper place than church. Church has always been a social event- it's how I was raised too so it's been good for me to be more aware of God outside of church.
Thanks so much for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.
You did a really awesome job with this hub! I have just spent the last half hour reading through some of the responses and I will say that it is truly sad that some people have labeled you as on your way to eternal damnation.
I didn't start attending church until I was an adult. I am glad that I didn't start until then because it has been an eye opening experience. I have also suffered under the judgmental church crowd. It really does leave a bitter taste in your mouth. I guess I said all that to say this. Church is suppose to be about God and him alone.I still actively attend church and serve god. I don't teach, lead or sing. I am happy right were god wants me. There are many people who attend church that will be shocked when the books are open. God has a problem with gossip and slander. God also says that we should remove the plank from our own eye before we try to remove a speck.
Happy Hubbing
independent writer~ thank you for reading. There's been ups and downs in the comment section. FOr years I gave up on God altogether because I thought I had to go to church to be with God so I want to let others know they don't have to do that. If there are reasons one doesn't go to church then they can still have God in their life. I've done this and my relationship with Him is so much better. I don't give up on church, I just need a break and focus what's most important. Thank you so much for your comment.
I think there are potential issues with going to church but personally I don't think it matters which religion you follow as spirituality is an inner experience, the religion is just the costume which you experience that sense of spirituality.
Some people say they are not religous but every morning, they have their coffee, brush their teeth, take the dog for a walk, etc. And every weekend they watch the footy, in other words they have their own rituals. Church to me is being conscious of the spiritual experience during a mass ritual.
True you can have spiritual experiences without attending church but church can offer an avenue to that spritual experience if that is what it means to you personally, you can't get that inner experience without being open to it. I don't beleieve that you have to agree with everything about the religious teachings and you can have beliefs different from your religion and still be part of a church. Most people have their own interpretation of their religion anyway, just ask any honest person. What is essentially important is that you see religious ceremony as an opportunity to share the spiritual experience with others, that to me is the most important part and what makes the expereince meaningful. Also, as I've gotten older I have learnt that the real truth to the church's teachings lie in their symbolic meaning. All this praying about the 'People of Israel' and Jerusalem stuff is a metaphor pointing towards what it means to be a part in the family of God. It doesn't matter what words you use, you can talk about Tibet or the Noth Pole, it just so happens that the authors of the Bible lived in that time and place and used those words. They should not be taken literally.
Thank you.
cyprian~ very valid comment and relevant because people do have rituals. Even though I don't go to church I watch a previously recorded religious program when I need a boost. I pray with my daughter before she goes to bed. I guess I'm more private about my worshipping because I lose the meaning when I go to church regularly. It becomes a "ritual" or habit like brushing my teeth and not as special to me or meaningful.I also like what you sa about religion in general and symbolic meanings- very true.
THanks so much for your comment.
There are allot of comments to read here! I personally think it is sad that some churches can be a drudgery to show up, and get preached at. What's really awesome...is when you find a church that you can't wait to get in the doors! Because the music is so heart lifting, variety of new songs, balance of ages in the congregation, and the pastor is teaching and talking to the people...not yelling he'll fire and brimstone. Insightful and relational teaching, humbled enough to share his mistakes and imperfections, yet still able to show you what has helped him to be an overcomer! Meeting new friends, kids also making new friends. I do agree with you, that you don't have to go to church to be spiritual...it is a place to where you an have fellowship with like minded people...and for those who like to sing, they can sing till their hearts content!
heart4theword~the singers would love most of the churches I've been to. Mostly working at nights, I don't have a singing voice in the morning nor do I want to sing. I want to be quiet and sip my coffee. I know churches try to mix in a variety of things that appeal to everyone and that's next to impossible, but I haven't found one that excites me. Thanks for your comment!
One reason why people quit is because some of them began to read their bibles and finding out that some of them preaches not according to the bible. That also shows that the Most High God was not in it in the first place due to false teachings, preachers in it for the money, etc.
Good point M.Harrison
Hi all ok this issue about Church,the bible explains that as a believer you should not forskae the gathering of other belivers Hebrews 10:24-25.So i dont think its right for anyone to tell/advice someone to stay away from Chruch on the other belivers/Born-Again assemble mainly at Church and the bible also says Hear what the Spirit says to..... Revelation 3:6 Thank You and dont be decieved
Victorino~ I respect your comment. The Bible still does not mention anything about church. Gathering with other believers is fine. Church has become far too institutionalized and far removed from what Jesus intended "gatherings" to be.
I am not advising people to not go to church. I am just putting info out there for church leaders to understand why over 1 million people leave the church each year. You can't ignore it.
Quality time with your pillow?
My ex-wife is ADHD, BP, OCD, ODD, BPD (a total nut job). She is in the choir at St Mary Magdelene, Toronto. Sundays, she would leave with the kids at 9:00a returning at 4:00p or later. She would complain that I drank beer during that time.
What she did not tell anyone is that at 9:00a I would start with what had to be done..
- stripped, flipped, remade 3 beds
- 5 to 8 loads of laundry
- vacuum end to end, 8 rooms
- dusting & glass cleaning
- garbage & recycling
- cat litter box & toilet cleaning
Mixed with..
- balcony cleanup
- fridge & freezer defrosting
- household repairs
- carpet & upholstery cleaning
- oven cleaning
- floor mopping
Always ending with..
- initial dinner preparations
- ironing
- putting wash away
Weekly my Sunday tasks from 9:00a until 12:30p. So yes, I went out for a few well deserved frosty ones for 2 hours with my brother.
My ex-wife initiated divorce to stop ADHD diagnostics for my son & also to join a second choir at her church. Several names from that place were included on her court documents ("were afraid to call her in case it caused trouble"). She now spends 2 nights a week, all day Sunday, additional time before x-mas & Easter at rehearsals & services (narcissistic sociopath).
The cost of her excessive church going?
- our marriage of 17 years
- our children's family holidays
- everything
Church is filled with mentally ill people, why would anyone normal go? My kids & I will never attend another service. There is too much which must be done. After all the housework is finished, there is life to be had!
If there is a heaven then my wife will be sent back to earth.. "You have not lived any life to judge. Go back & this time don't spend so much wasted time."
Robert~ I completely agree and I bet we're not the only ones that have found the descrepencies in church. My husband's ex-wife is mentally ill (bi-polar) and she is an avid church goer. Thanks for the comment RObert.
Great hub, Izetti!It is very informative and written carefully.
Thank you so much mabmiles!
Hi izetti, I spotted your eye-catching hub title. I am interested to hear what you have said. I am not here to persuade you otherwise... Spiritual experiences should not stop the minute I exit church. I experience God 24/7 . LORD GOD is with me all the time. I agree that in church, there is lots of people issues. After all, it is a human community. And as a human community, there are all sorts of human needs, yours being some of those human needs. You are going to church to fill those human needs, am I right? Those that you are meeting in church are inadequate to fill these human needs. Only God can fill your human needs. That's why you feel closer to God outside the church than you do within the church. One of the useful Bible teachings I have ever received is that I must be able to hold the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other hand, and then I must be able to solve the problems in the newspaper by what I learn from the Bible. In other words, practical applications of God's Word in your life. Jesus said that I am the Light of the world and the Salt of the earth. For those people who wear Jesus, you will also be the light of the world and the salt of the earth. You will shine your light into the darkness, and show the way through the unmapped territories and the uncharted waters. It only takes a little light to light up the darkness. That is what is meant by being the church. Izetti, as you read the Bible, find the practical everyday applications to God's Word. Also, He gives you wisdom to live everyday life (by revelation) for you and for those around you. This is what it means to be the church, and to be the light of the world and the salt of the earth. Do not be distracted by those that profess to be Christian, yet behave in ungodly ways. Focus now... Have I got your attention? I prayed that LORD GOD will speak through me as I try to reach out to you. There is a point to your faith. You do not need to wait for an ordained minister to minister to people. As LORD GOD speaks biblical truth to you, you can minister to another person. Read my hubs... I minister to both the churched and the unchurched, the believers and the non-believers. Starting point from here: http://paulinekhoo.hubpages.com/hub/Credentials ... Hope you have fun and faith-filled adventures in your everyday life.
Pauline~ I go to church for God- only. If I don't interact much with others, I am considered a snob or anti social, but that's not my social spot- only God. I find that the people part interferes with my agenda for feeling closer to God and feeling a message. it just distracts me too much and I know many others who have good intentions but end up caught up in the people and social aspect of church. I like your Newspaper analogy- very true. I find God everywhere and look to the Bible for inspiration and during troubled times. I am pretty happy with how it works for me. Thank you for the link!
I go to church every sunday. When i get out of church, i go to the store and try on like 30 pieces of clothes and leave them off the hangers in the dressing room. Then, I get into my car and ride someone's butt trying to go 30 miles over the speed limit.
I am blessed and will go to heaven because my preacher told me so. He said all i have to do is believe in Jesus and god, and pay him some money each week.
...You and millions of other proclaimed Christians
the church is losing because people are becoming more aware of truth, god lives with in each of us and we mustent worship false idles....be good, be happy love and laugh and god will be with you always......you don't need to donate money or read false scripture, the world is millions of years old, we will go on with church or with out.
raguett~ agreed!
Read all your page, now will you read mine?
"I" - That I sense is the real problem with your church experience. Too much I and not enough of U God.
Take out the I and experience a real relationship with Jesus. Let me respond to your bullet points:
1) When you go to church you can learn your way around the Bible a little at a time. Memorize a verse and you'll remember it.
2) Sing to and for Jesus-Maybe He likes His songs. A.W. Tozer puts it like this: "I can't sing a lick but Jesus thinks I'm an opera singer."
3) Rest?: Matthew 11:28 come to me all who are weary and heavy laden & I'll give you rest.
4) If you become a Christian you too will at times be a hypocrite. Can't always be perfect as we would like to be but we are perfectly forgiven and Keep on trying.
5) Matthew 7:2 in the way you judge, you will be judged
6) Give it up for God. I urge you by God's mercy to present your body a living & holy sacrifice acceptable to God especially on Sunday; Bed head and all.
7) Actually Hebrews 10:24-25 says Christians should not forsake assembling together as is the habit of some.
8) James 5:16 says Confess your sins to one another and to God through prayer-not the priests.
9) Last but not least, Jesus said I am the way, the truth & life. No one comes to the Father but thru me. John 14:16.
I go to church for God and it is overwhelming and quite distracting with all the people who don't- many go for socializing or obligations. I understand your points you've made, but no offense should be taken if I don't go to church and if it's my personal relationship with Jesus and God, then how would you know if I have a "real relationship with Jesus"? Please find me something/scripture in the Bible about having to go to church to have a relationship with God.
I find your story self centered. I work with homeless, addicts, suicide victims, human slave victims, and etc. Most have found the Lord on their own. Given a Bible their choice to read it or not. They chose to read it and study it. Their own findings were they found there own situations in the Bible and related to them. It's not about you. it's about the Lord, his word for his children and finding His purpose and plan for a wonderful life. The people I work with tell me of their Blessings and teach me how the Lord is helping to restore sanity,respect,Hope,security,comfort,salvation,redemption,and the greatest of all gifts love back into their lives. Most are helping new victims to be like them victors. They chose to find their God through reading the Bible. The few who chose to do it themselves are still struggling and in turmoil. We have choices still available in this America. Some chose for the better and some not. So quit complaining and step up to the plate be thankful you can choose. Don't go to church if you don't choose too. Help the homeless,addicted,abused,and etc. you can make a difference for God if you choose,too There's a lot of hurting children out there as well as adults. they all can use a friend with good intentions.
and that's where these humans started. Church is the following of people. The people make up the church not the building If your find fault with people in these church's
Lynn~ self-centered? 1-2 million people leave the church every year. Damn them too! I find your comment judgmental like most of the self-righteous folks in churches and self-proclaimed religious folks. What should it matter if I choose not to go to a church so long as I've found God and his blessings? It is about the Lord and your comment is negative toward me when all I've stated is I have God without the church folk and the building.
Ever heard "Ethics and atmosphere are inseparable. Where are you hanging out?". When i hang out at churches I lose sight of what's really important...God. The churches I've been to are a social gathering, gossip center, potluck happy, money getting and giving center- all of which I do not need. THe focus is not God...and I've been to many churches. You worship the way they want you to, talk about today's sermon even though it's not what's ailing you today. I've held open "church" days at my house and it goes well- people are able to intimately share more, more one-on-one time, etc.
I am happy that you help the homeless, but did you know that helping the homeless and being charitable is also a selfish act? You do it because it makes YOU feel good- it's a fact...been studied, etc. So don't start out with how you help others to automatically give you more credit here and inadvertently suggest you're better. And just because I don't go to church or "volunteer" doesn't mean I don't help people all the time. I just don't wear that badge of honor like you and I don't brag about it.
I love the Lord will all my heart but just don't like attending church that much due to the fact that church people always try to get me overly committed to their projects and never listen to what I want. I read my Bible daily and pray throughout the day! I love my personal relationship with Christ and don't need anyone putting me, my money or lack thereof on their agenda! I don't feel that church attendance is the only way we can reach out and help others! I have my own ministry where I sing and play the keyboard for nursing homes! I also have many on line sisters and brothers in Christ that I pray for and encourage every day! Thanks for your honesty!
I just wanted to add that when people quote scripture they had better know what they are quoting! We are living in the age of GRACE not in the old testament age of the law! We treat others differently and for the most part better than the way people treated others back in the old testament days. We are living in the age of Grace not the age of the law before Christ! Do we still stone people for adultery? I think not! Christ came to fulfill the law not to make us live under it! The Apostle Paul wrote on several occasions that the Jewish Christians kept trying to fall back into their religious habits and that this was wrong! We have been freed from the religious practices of the old testament days! Tell people who quote scripture to look up the word Bible dispensation first! Christian legalism has done more to hurt Christianity than anything else and I don't think Christ ever intended us to beat our children! This is why some people hate Christianity because they were abused by their well meaning yet very much mislead Christian parents! We have to be careful about taking the Old Testament literally!
Very insightful. Some of the reasons people give for leaving a church are hard to take, but they are true and we (those who go to church) need to listen to them. Church too often becomes a matter of maintaining what we already have rather than becoming what God/Jesus/Holy Spirit mean for us to become. When that happens, churches and Christians stagnate.
There is too much work to do today to waste time on some of the games that get played at church (As one of your comments above pointed out: "The churches I've been to are a social gathering, gossip center, potluck happy, money getting and giving center- all of which I do not need."). I'm saying that as someone very involved in church work and activities. I know some of our shortcomings.
You've hit the nail on the head here, excellent article.
Warren
Snowbird~ love everything you've said here. Very humble and you know a lot about Christianity and Christ's teachings. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Warren~ Thank you for your comment. I can see you understand and realize some of the shortcomings. The message I would like to get out to people is that it's OK to not be a full part of a church and still worship the Lord. The personal relationship matters most. When I first quit church I thought I couldn't believe in God because I no longer wanted to go to church and this is a big misperception. I now have a better relationahip with Jesus and God and I bring that into my life in all aspects. I know there are many good people in a church and you being one of them- thanks for stopping by. I appreciate your kindness, and not attacking me for my thoughts.
Ha I love this. Fricken people think i need to be saved cuz i can't attend church every week. I work nights and if i am going to hell because i had to work a night shift and missed holy day church "Easter Sunday" services, then whatever people. Who are you to judge me. I can pray and believe in God where ever I may be, I do not have to be in a building to praise and worship my God. I think your a bigger sinner and less a christian for not accepting me for who I am.
Exactly...and well put Darlene! Thanks for stopping by!
Great bub! Saturday or the Sabbath is the day of rest. I have quit a couple of churches for various reasons. It's ironic that my hubby and I will be starting our own congregation soon.
oops i meant hub
I agree that since 1600 so many new man made denominations and none denominations have been invented by men alone specially by English Kings in Englan, some thing like over 200000 kinds around the globe. Example King James bible which was created by King James, an ordinary sinful king who corrupted and abused his power like any other politicians and kings in history!!! But f you stick to the very old traditional and original bibles and churches that has been around for couples of thousands years, you will be safe. It is time for all Christians to go back to what we supposed to be and are called for. I have been gone through a lot of transformations myself and at some point I thought why even bother to go to a church!!!! But just being a good person (since our type of humanistic definition of being good and human is different then the type we supposed to be since as humans we only have limited knowledge to know what is truly good or not! (Example, I will only treat those people nice who treat me nice in return, I will scratch your back if tou scratch mine). On top of that you can be spiritual without believing in true god! There are tons of spiritual practices out there today who believe in no god or tons of different gods!!! Going to a traditional original true church is like exorcism. Each week you go there to make your spirit clean and strong against the evil forces. We all have some evil inside and we can't stand strong against evil forces and temptations alone! Evil force is stronger then humans that why we need to go to church to clean ourselves and get spiritual help from a bigger higher power to stand strong. People who stop going to church, they get farther and father from any help and at one point some of these people stop believing in god alltogether. We should keep our souls like a burning candles, if we stop going to church the candle will at some point, loses its light and its power. And once you stay away from church, you temptated to sin and forget about god's love and protection. You need to put this efford to save and protect yourself or slip away from hopes faiths and all protections from higher power! The church is not for god, it's for us the humans, you are not doing any favour to god, it's there for you and me.....now the choice is yours, God Bless
7. Church isn't the Only Place to Worship
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.- Hebrews 10:25
I understand y u gav some of those reasons, but be careful not to mislead urself and others. Church ought to draw u closer to God and other christains.
I apreciate your article. Glad I'm not the only one who feels as you do. I, too, have to sometimes work on Sundays. Besides, I fell and messed my leg up 2 years ago and have been walking on crutches for as long. Not one person in the church I've been going to even asks me how I am doing. I have been just sitting in the pews and I barely speak to anyone because they aren't interested in anything I have anyway. The best one was I went up to pray for my sister to leave witchcraft, the pastor gave me a dirty look, so I turned around and sat back down. I'm tired of just sitting there. I've tried on numerous occasions to get involved with several events they have, including fundraisers, volunteer work, bible study, etc. only to be rejected by these people. I feel closer to God when I am doing my work away from church more than with these people. I don't feel guilty for the decision to leave either. I do watch many of my favorite Christian programs on my computer and do listen to Christian music and radios. It's just when I go to church, I feel different, like I'm more of an outsider than part of the body of Christ.
WOW, I thougth I was alone in my feelings. I attended a Baptist Church with my mother since I was a little girl, I loved it. As an adult I tried to find that same connection in a Church but it wasn't there, it felt exhausting-trying to empress, participate in everything, etc. Now I have mini services with my children on Sundays and it is filled with praise, however, I would prefer to be in a Church with people that were just as happy to see me or embrace the Lord as I was.
I totally agree with you.
I stopped going to church because many people made fun of me because I was fat (I have since exerciced and eat right so most of the fat is gone.
Then there is the self righteous who look for any little thing to throw the Bible in my face when they see an opportunity and scream I am not a true Christian (one example is because I smoke) all the while what tehy do is much worse.
God bless you.
Just as we should not judge the seriel killer, we should not judge Christians who are not perfect and will make mistakes just like everyone one else. This should not reflect upon God's love for all and it is up to us not to let it.
Thanks for all the comments. I wrote this because I knew many people felt the same way and they shouldn't be ashame or guilty. Like "Freedom" above commented church should draw you closer to God... and I will add...if it doesn't then it doesn't mean you can't be close to God even if you don't attend church.
God is infallable. Humans are not. Christians are humans and therefore make mistakes. Even though the "Church" was created by God through Jesus, the people who make up the church do make mistakes and do sin. The expectation that church people must be perfect is unrealistic. Throughout the history of the Jewish people they were continuously losing their way then returning back to God. God created the solution that took the errant ways out of our weak hands. He came to earth as his Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus took the burden of our sins upon himself so that we could be sin free in God's eyes. Even though we are free from sin to God we still make mistakes and sin. People outside of the church expect those inside to be faultless. This is an unreasonable and unfair expectation. Give yourself a break by not setting high standards for Christians. We are after all human just like you.
Steve Cornish- very mistaken on your part. I do not (and stated such in my hub) hold Christians to a higher standard. The joke is on them (and you) actually. Christians at church act as if they are above others. In fact it is hypocrisy that drives me nuts about people in church. I would like to tell them all to GET REAL. They act perfect in church and are rude in public. I've seen it al lthe time. Christians (church goers) are the ones that act above the rest of us. So far it's all christians in the comment section trying to convince me that I should not expect them to be perfect. God, would I love that- I'd like them to stop acting like they are perfect and just be normal. That is why so much corruption in churches. I grew up with a pastor who led us all to believe his family was perfect when actually I knew his son was on drugs and his daughter wasd a rude snob at school. BUT all the christians believe it is me, not them. They are perfect, it's me and my views that need fixing. Blah blah blah- come back to me with something better. Yes, it is an unreasonable expectation to hope that churchgoers can act normal and not perfect. It's not exactly what I've seen in church but what I've seen from churchgoers outside of church- totally different people. All I'd expect is that they be who they really are- be genuine and authentic.
If you're all human ,then act like it. Show your flaws in church as you do outside of church. You commenting that I should change my views is acting as if your view and opinion is better than mine- you'r eright I'm wrong. There you go.
This hub is for the purpose of not condemming those that don't go to church but to let people know the things that turn people off from church are not reflections of God. They can still have a relationship with God even if they are not going to church- that is most important. DOn't you think?
I am very sadden by this view on what church is to izettl and some commentators. God is perfect and Holy and the truth is all of the time the people is works with are imperfect people struggling in their own sins. I go to Church to meet God and His community of people as we spur each other on in our walk with God. Truly a church has to be a place where it is okay to not be okay. For the church goers, at the end of the day don't be like those in Matthew 7:21-23
I really enjoyed this article so much. I myself was raised in church. My parents and myself were there everytime the doors were open. They looked down on others that didnt go to church, as well as i did myself. I also grew up thinking you HAD to go to church "to be living right" "to have a relationship with God" and that is totally wrong! No u do not! How dare we say people arent living right just because they dont go to a building twice a week? How in the world do we know how many times they pray? How are they living their lives outside of church is whats important. The church is not made of sticks and stones, it is made of flesh and bones. We ARE the church. When it says to gather together it does not mean in a building. It means any where at any time. God has no religion. Please tell me in the bible where it says he does. Tell me where it says we have to follow a religion. It doesnt. Religion is man made. He wants us to be united and love him and each other, and praise him. We are NOT united when we are seperated by religion. Whos right, whos wrong? It doesnt matter. All that matters is that you have a personal relationship with God. And you can do that anywhere, and at any time.
Darren~ my point of view has some truth to it. You'd bel blind if you didn't realize that. There is nothing sad about it except people are ashamed to admit how displeased they are with church. I can meet God anywhere, not just at church and I can reach more people by being out of church- more people who need to learn about God than those who already know God. Yes, I agree a church needs to be a place where it's ok to not be ok. Couldn't agree with you more, so why do church goers act like their perfect and put on a fake front. When I was a kid reality was my mom got a divorce (my dad cheated) and many people at our church stopped talking to her and inviting her to functions. That is sad. I am fighting for God, not church. I gave up on God because I gave up on church. Then I figured out I didn't need church to have God- that is not sad. I want others to know that too. Later in life my own mother looked down on me for not going to church -s he still has issues with it and all because she's been basically brain-washed into psychological abuse from churchgoers. You don't have to go to church to matter to God.
Justbeyou~ thanks. You really get the point of what I've said. Especially love your last sentence of your comment.
Yw. I hope people will wake up and realize that religion is not all its cracked up to be. I was brainwashed for many years on religion, but now im not. Im free. Free to worship when i want, wherever i want, and HOW i want. I dont need a preacher to tell me his version, because thats what it is, his version, on how to live. The bible tells you how to live. The 10 commandments sum it up. Think about it...the only reason we follow a religion is because someone else told us how its supose to be. We see it the way they see it. Well what happens when u switch religions? Well you start believing the way they do once again. Its almost like people cant think for themselves. Like they are toddlers who need to be told what to think. There is no openmindedness. You close your mind, and you close your heart. And sadly thats the way alot of religions are. IM RIGHT they say. Well what if i say IM RIGHT. See we are divided once again.
justbeyou~ i didn't even know God until I left the church and gave it up. For me, it seems all religion and churches I've been to are some man's interpretation of God. When you think about it, most people are like sheep- there is a strong need to follow and belong and I jsut don't subscribe that mentality. I am happy with God and without a church fellowship.
I am right there on the same page with you. There are lots of people who are sheep and its really sad. People have gotten so use to being controlled, i dont think they even care if they are. Its easier to just let someone else do your thinking. It takes courage to go your own way. And our world lacks alot of courage. You are more accepted if u just follow the crowd. I think more people should find their own way. Think for yourself. You might just find that most of the things you were taught as a child were wrong. Some right, some wrong, but make your own decision.
When was this article published?
as a studied minister,i believe that the ball was possibally originally dropped in biblical times.also,i sincerely believe that we have not discovered all of the texts of the bible and this has left some confusion as to the sound doctrine and foundation of christ as well as some contradicting teachings.the church has for example been teaching for at least 100 years that god reprimands us and spiritually smacks us on the hands and even trials us now and then.this is a huge lie!! the old testament teaches that these things were true but when jesus came in to the picture,god's anger with man ended and jesus bore ALL (past present and future)sin of mankind on the cross and at that point all that a person needed to achive salvation is to accept christ.forgiveness of sins occured at the cross upon his death and resurrection.to say that we have to frequently say i'm sorry and ask forgiveness when we fall or come short every time is to say that jesus has the ability to continue to forgive us everytime we ask him..that's absurd!!!he forgave us once..read the bible..the war is over..god doesn't give us trials and smack our hands and reprimand us!!that is old testament teachings!! the devil does that!! not god!! god's anger with man ended at the cross!!but nearly all of present day minsiters teach that god's angry and full of wrath toward mankind,etc etc.the bible contradicts that lie over and over and i don't understand why studied men of god don't see this!!maybe their not as studied as they think they are/jesus doesn't forgive us our sins over and over..our failings are covered by his blood.if one truly goes back into sin after receiving christ,then it's probable that the person accepted christ from mere passing emotion.or that there's an emotional problem existing./the bible says a person becomes a new creature in christ after acceptance.not maybe..he becomes one..if he doesn't..then he didn't accept in a genuine spiritual state of heart.probably in a passing state of emotional feeling)/and legalism is also taught as being a requirement to heaven's acceptance.it's not your performance as a christian that get's you to heaven.you're not left behind because you're a huge mel gibson fan. you're saved by grace and by the blood of the lamb.not by your performance!!
Thank you so much for your comments, they have given me some peace that I am not alone. We moved to a very small southern town about 4 years ago. It has taken that amount of time for most folks to figure out that we don't attend church. My son came home from school recently and informed me that a few of his friends no longer want to play with him because he doesn't attend church. (I am not sure how to handle this, I had hoped we had gotten away from the judgements.) I assume this revelation has come from the parents. My heart is broken for him, but I too have been judged in the past at church and did not want to experience that again. Therefore, I "home school" religion. My two sons are taught bible stories from me, pray, and worship God just like I do - away from church. We live in a gorgeous area of the U.S. It is a wonderful thing to be in nature and be spiritual with God when I want to and on my terms.
My two cents,
I believe that as there are many different kinds of people, there are many different kinds of churches. Or more specifically leadership styles. Many are filled with judgment, condemnation, and as the Bible says "pulling the speck out of someone else's eye when you have a log sticking out of your own "
This does not mean all church leadership is that way. I have left churches for that very reason. I am currently at one that trys very hard not to foster that attitude. At this time in my life it works for me and I have growth spiritually and as a person.
If you are the type of Christian who can read the Bible, pray, and look for God's leading? It really shouldn't matter whether you go to a building.
I find many benefits from attending my church. Spiritual and non. If at some point I don't then it may be time to move on. Left a church of 10 yr attendance for that very reason.
I guess what I am saying is, congregation or not, if you are seeking God and listening then you will come to know his will for your life. Paul did.
God bless.
I have found church (buildings), just a place to control the masses. The previous year,I began questioning WHY I attended church so faithfully when all I was hearing preached was money, money, and more money. I soon found that I was only attending just so I could play dress up and that my attendance was more habitual than anything else. Touche'!
I was no longer growing (spiritually), and all the "faithful" church members wanted to do was pray for this or that w/o actually putting any action behind it.
Moreover,the more questions I asked, the more even the pastor would turn in the other direction when he'd see me coming towards him or even looking in his direction!
The last straw was when I submitted a 5-6 page proposal (to get the church and it's members moving), to our administrator. I kept waiting for the pastor to "get back to me", but he never did. After about 3 months, I went to him and he said he hadn't seen it! Furthermore, he made an excuse for the administrator by telling me that she probably put it on his desk but he just hadn't seen it.
The slap in the face came when the administrator used one of my ideas and passed it off as her own!
These lukewarm self proclaimed "Christians" are great at deception and they will actually shun you if they feel you are not showing them some god-like devotion. I only feel sorry for those I left behind,for I see them all as blind slaves to do the pastor's (their god), bidding.
It took me a while to realize and to learn (via spiritual revelation), they and the spiritual deadness within the church were reason why I always felt drained, lethargic, stagnated etc.
In fact, the local pastor would sit amongst the rest of us (albeit in the front center row with his wife), and watch the stream of the lead pastor along with everyone else.
I also realized that our local leaders felt that there is no need for them to do any work - since the main pastor was doing it all via stream - especially the preaching.
As of today's date,there is only ONE active "ministry" within the church ... Intercessory Prayer and even this is a laugh.
Simply put, I just got tired of "playing church" with the rest of the babes in Christ. The LORD and I get along just fine IN MY HOME!
When you write that your mom met a hard time "finding a suitable church" are you saying that the church judged your mom because she was divorced?
i find a none domnachen the best for me thay not so quick to juge you right off the bat.and when i heard the holly goost tell me to stay sober i did and was reveled to me a pease for the first time in my life and love came for man cind after vast noleg and with that noleg came the same voice that told me to get sobor teach man kind to pray / talk i was heasatent at first but hear i am first cleare your mind fockes what your going to say and with out speeking say it in your brain and that it its easy when you dream he will come as the chriches grow more crureped and need more money you can keep your fath and dump your chirch. my sin was drinking what ever yours is you deside to be all in or gust thare to watch the show.ferget the group thing and walk with the good god. most chriches are posing as a place of worship like a vending chirch put a twenty in the baskit and fill out a pray card and your wish will come true you think haysoze wanted to be like that the romand added that to the bible to give revine to the chirch
I recently went back to church with my husband, since I knew that he wanted me to. I'm the one that was walking on crutches. Well, I had hip replacement surgery, and can now walk without my crutches.
I was very excited about this and was smiling, and praising God to be able to walk again without those crutches.
This one rude lady, who happens to be an usher, came up to me, while I was minding my own business and had to give her "spiritual" (lol) comment "I see you're still hobbling around" I turned to her and said "Do you see that something is missing, my crutches. Then I quoted a scripture at her Isaiah 40:31 "He who waits upon the Lord will renew his strength and rise up like eagles. They will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not faint." She just looked at me and went away. Everyone else was happy for me that I wasn't using the crutches anymore, even though I still have a slight limp. But, there always has to be some rude person givng their stupid opinion. What gets me is these people never appologize for their inappropriate remarks. But, it is my choice whether I go to church or not go to church.
Great post! No wonder I never cared much for church. I had tried 4 different churches in the 8 years I lived in this northern Arizona town. But they were all like what was said on this post (all 10 too!). No wonder my husband doesn't like church (but he's a true believer in God).
I believe in God too, but I'm more spiritual than Christian (but I do believe in the Christian philosophy and some of the Buddhist philosophy too). I love both. So, I'm just spiritual and very mindful on things I say, do, & my actions toward others.
I believe a Higher Power is with you 24/7, not only at church, as I think most church-goers think that's the only place to get close to God. Your Higher Power is with you ALWAYS, EVERYWHERE, & ANYTHING you do...That's my belief.
So, spending more time with my pillow (and a good book, along with nice soft music) on Sunday mornings is my ideal Sabbath!
There are reasons people quit church. They don't wipe out good reasons to be a part of a church family: 1) Jesus died for the church, as well as the individual (Ephesians 5:25). To say you love Jesus but hate the church is to say to a husband, "I like you but hate your wife"! 2) The church, with all it's flaws, is God's plan to reach the world and heal people from despair, defeat, and the devil (Matt. 16:17-19). 3) To be a 'lone ranger" in spiritual things is to have no real spiritual influence on others, no real eternal legacy, and a further source of spitting on God's love in the death of Christ on the Cross for all of us.
the ball was dropped~ very interesting theory.
momathome~ sadly the woprld is like this and many like myself least expected it from those who worship God. But it happens and sorry your son had to figure this out so early in life. I also teach my daughter bible stories, about God and Jesus and we pray. I attend church periodically because I want her to see for herself. No where in the bible does it talk abotu church. Jesus usually gathered with people outside informally.
Prinlges3030~ thanks for stopping by and yes I believe as you do. I absolutely believe in God, but have yet to find a suitable church. My friends...some go to church and some not but all are believers. Church has many benefits- it can be a community in a world where thats not seen as much anymore, but it can also be e burden of judgment. Glad you found one for you.
sounds like you people have your priorities in the wrong place. First of all you. God gives you the strenght to work and have health.Secondly, you wake up early to work. You can't even get up a little later in the morning to worship God? Others quit going to church because you felt burnt out?? Really, how come you don't quit your job when you feel that way. Church is about worshiping God and if you feel burnt out stop doing what you're doing, take a break, but don't stop going. You're only affecting yourself. And by the way, there is a verse that says that you should not stop going to church:Hebrews 10:25. If you can't get up early, try finding a church that's time suits your pillow.
I plead with you to reconsider Jesus' words about this. What we often find missing from church is a connection and communication with God. May God bless us in our study. Here is part of my response to your thoughts here.
1. Missed Out on Church 101. Jesus said, “The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63).
2. Repetitive and Dull Songs. Jesus said, “In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You” (Heb. 2:12, cf. 1 Cor. 14:15, Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16, Jas. 5:13).
3. Day of Rest. What did Jesus do on the first day of the week? We read, “Now when He rose early on the first day of the week,” (Mark 16:9).
4. Conflicting Evidence. See #5.
5. Thou Shall Not Judge. Why judge people for judging people? Jesus said, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24).
6. Work. Jesus said, “But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you” (Matt. 6:33). What are “all these things” (Matt. 6:19ff)?
7. Church Isn’t the Only Place to Worship. Jesus said, “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them” (Matt. 18:20, cf. 1 Cor. 5:4, Rev. 1:10, 13, 17), and His Spirit said, “Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembly of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries…” (Heb. 10:23-27, cf. 10:27ff).
8. Creepiness Factor. Christ said, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit” (Matt. 7:15-17, cf. 2 Pet. 2:12ff, Jude 6-19).
9. Point of View. Jesus said, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matt. 7:13-14), and He stated, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God” (Luke 16:15).
10. Unanswered Prayers. Jesus stated, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened" (Matt. 7:7-8, cf. 2 Cor. 12:7-10).
The Bible does in fact tell true followers of Christ that they should join together to worship him ('go to church'), as the previous poster has said. In his letters Paul also warns true Christians against failing to do so.
countrywomen 3 years ago
Izettl- I almost burst out laughing " I want quality time with my pillow" (Are you mind reader I mean I think exactly the same way on weekends)...LOL
Seriously I have encountered some of those people who tend to judge others quickly without even trying to understand them and which is so sad to see. You have made a good beginning sister and hope we all grow upto having greater love & kindness for all of us. Good hub.