Lack of Sex and Sexless Marriages
94Lack of sex in marriages happens- you may call them lulls, low points, or dry spells. Long-term sexless marriages happen too- we've all heard about it, seen it (popular talk shows,etc.), and possibly experience it. The general statistic is about 15-20% of couples experience a sexless marriage, which is defined as having 0-10 sexual encounters per year with their partner. Think "Happy Birthday honey. See you next year".
A dramatic lack of sex in relationships has people asking, 'How does this happen? How does a couple go two years or 10 years without sex?'. Everything may be normal- no illnesses, chronic issues, or disorders. So what's going on?
Please Note: this hub isn't for the incurably happy and sexually satisfied couples, even though I know some of you will feel compelled to leave your gushy comments. This is truly for those of us who are curious or experience this in our marriage.
It's Complicated: Those of you who think dating is tough, try making a marrige work. It seems marriages get complicated as time goes by; resentment for things said or done can accumalate, having children, other family that lives with you or gets involved, illnesses, stress, work overload, and the B word- boredom. Almost all of these listed is inevitable. Not much can really prepare us for the demands of marriage. There is so much involved, it can be difficult to pinpoint just one single aspect that led to sexlessness.
Quantity Versus Quality: Once married, instead of sex simply being an aspect of a couple's relationship they enjoy, it becomes an expectation. Expectations are usually things we avoid or procrastinate. Often times, from the women's point of view, "sex is just another chore". From the man's viewpoint, sex is expected, but he must realize it takes work to get her into it.
Men tend to keep score on how often they get sex. Women tend to barter- give sex in return for something they really want, like a massage. Society focuses on quantity of sex. It gets more attention than whether the sex is good or great (quality). If you want to improve the quantity, then focus on quality- maybe this means foreplay or trying new things or finding what relieves stress for your partner.
The number one rule of human nature is to seek pleasure and avoid pain; therefore if the sex is good or rewarding in some aspect, a person will seek it. Likewise, they will avoid it if they are tired, the sex isn't good, bad mood, not interested, stressed.
Men Vs. Women: Women derive all pleasure from how good her sexual experience is- did the man mentally stimulate her and was he willing to please her physically, not just for his own agenda. For a woman, 'good' doesn't always mean orgasm, it means fulfilling emotionally- made her feel closer to her husband, made her feel sexy and wanted. Once married a woman does a lot of little things for a man and he may not notice- she cooks, does laundry, makes his appointments. Men enjoy these little things and women do too, but in the form of little things to help her relax or enjoy a sexual experience.
Men need sex for different reasons- if they cheat it's not because of the quality of sex within their marriage, instead they reported/complained about the quantity (lack of sex). In fact, cheaters state the sex was good with their spouse when it happened, but it did not happen enough. For men, a sexual experience is predominately physical, but satisfies an emotional closeness to his wife as well. Sometimes it's the only way he feels close to her so you can understand the immense importance of sex to a man.
Many men view sex as part of the foundation for a healthy relationship- if the sex is happening, then there are no problems as far as they're concerned. In actuality, sex is an expression of the relationship. For some people, they don't need sex to have a good relationship. It's important for men and women to discuss their own needs of sex with each other.
Sex Vs. Desire: As a couple, people need to realize sex and desire will obviously be different for each person. Sex is different for women, physically, because women ovulate once a month for a few days. During that time they are most fertile and at a natural sexual peak- they desire the intimacy of sex. There are also times in her cycle when she will naturally want to be left alone. Women who are pre, currently menopausal, or post will experience a fluctuation (highs, lows, and unpredictability) with their sex drive. Also women on birth control pills do not ovulate, therefore a possible decrease in sex drive may occur.
When the desire between a couple fades away, sex becomes an act of just going through the motions. Some people don't need to feel desire or desirable to have sex and others do. If you want to be regarded as desirable by your spouse, take pride in yourself and your body (no matter your size or limitations. Desire is all in the mind- whether it's you or your partner's mind, desire is purely a perception.
Routine Vs. Spontaneity: Many of us married folk have fallen into the routine called marriage. It's the same thing every day for my husband and I; he goes to work, I stay home with kid, he comes home, dinner time, he plays with kid while I get a mini mini-break, I put kids to bed, and then we watch TV or read until we're both asleep.
Kids create routine; dinner time, bed time, bath time, etc. It's healthy for kids, but not for marriages. So you're probably thinking I'm going to argue that spontaneity needs to be rekindled in order for sex to increase. Wrong! Most sex in marriages with kids, is spontaneous sex- get it when or while you can. I miss the days when my husband (before he became my husband), had to call me up and ask me on a date, I got dressed to impress, and we both knew what would be happening that night- it was planned, but hot, and something we could look forward to. I like to plan to have sex, then I can put make-up on, dress up, etc and the anticipation is like foreplay. Same can happen in a busy marriage- planning can be hot. Make a date in the schedule and flirt throughout the day.
Communication Vs. Relationship: Often times, lack of sex in a relationship has nothing to do with sex, it's a symptom of something else going on. There is a problem that needs to be resolved before sex happens. Unfortunately, communication breaks down or ceases altogether when sex diminishes, and communication is the only way to detect and resolve problems within the relationship. If one or both of you are not willing to talk, then divorce becomes likely. Lack of communication and lack of sex is more detrimental to a relationship than aything. A good clue to where the problem lies is at what point the sex began to slow down significantly. If communication is abrupted, then the sex life will be, and soon the relationship will completey suffer.
Ask Yourself: If you are the partner putting sex on hold, then you need to know exactly why your motivation is to do so. Once that hurdle is demystified, then it's best to go to your partner to tell them what you need to be physical again.
Likewise, if you are the partner doing without, then it's wise to bring the topic up comfortably with the other person. Make it not about sex only. Ask if there is anything stressing the other person out or how you can help them in some way.
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bhowell- thanks for the encouraging comment. If you would have told me five years ago, when I was dating my husband, that our sex life wouldn't be GREAT, I would have laughed at the thought. It WAS great, but life happens, and sex hardly ever does.
I think you are so right about marriages that once had a great sex life are definitely at risk for slowing down- great point. Literally "better or worse and sickness or health", but they should add "kids" too.
Great hub izetti - I think you've put down the relevant reasons so well. Very often though, when there are no incredible expectations, there's a lot more enjoyable sex. Maybe too much has been written about what sex should be like and we're suckers for the media blitz that surrounds issues like these? :)
Shalini kagal~ I agree with you about what we hear and see in media images portraying what sex should be like; the sweat, the hours of pleasure, the screaming orgasm, and perfect glistening bodies. The definition of "good" sex varies from couple to couple. There is no one-size-fits-all definition.
No - guess there isn't - but there's always the idea of 'perfect' wired into our brains :D
NICE HUB
I think that sex is just one aspect (and not even the most important one), of a relationship. A relationship that is purely based on sex will not last long. However, a relationship that is strong in other aspects, but not really sexual can be very enduring.
It is unfortunate that we are taught, through popular media and what-not that everybody is out there having lots of perfect sex; and if we are not doing the same, we are losing out or in an unsuccessful relationship. In reality, I think that most relationships, at least long term relationships, are more on the less side. It would be interesting to see some surveys or statistics on this.
Thanks for the comments~
Aya hajime~ There are statistics about how single people have sex on average of 3 times a week and married people on average of 1 time a week. The stats never specify whether "single" means in (not married) or not in a relationship at all- my guess is that the single stats encompass both in and not in a relationship.
Married couples may have less sex, but I believe that long-term relationships have more of other rewarding aspects in them, such as kids together, committment, acceptance, dependability, and openness that singles may not experience. There is pay-offs to both I suppose. Thinking back, I probably had more sex when I was single, but I always felt like I was missing something and now that feeling isn't there since I've been married.
Quite possibly sex may naturally decrease after marriage because there are other aspects to enjoy with that person and a deeper intimacy than more casual relationships- fulfillment comes in many forms and you're right, sex isn't everything.
I don,t know if its got to do that much with kids, as if its about being bored with the same routine of life and same stuff alot of times, i guess you got to try to turn eachother on) like you did before!
jgrof299- I think it has less to do with kids for men than for women. Kids change a woman physically, mentally, and their perception of themselves changes drastically. It changes the dynamics in a relationship because where there were just two people, now there is three or more. My husband tells me he is jealous of the love and time I spend with my daughter and he used to come first, but now she does.
Also, I honestly struggled with the fact that my husband will potentially be the last and only person I have sex with. It stems from the realization that I already know everything about him and this is why I believe each person should have a life, hobbies, interests, outside of their marriage and that way there is something interesting to talk about and it's not the same boring routine and daily chit chat.
Actually, izetti, married people have more sex on average than single people. A british study of people in 59 countries found that married couples had a lot more sex than singles.
I am in a sexless marriage (11 months now) and have come to the conclusion that after such a long period of time, it's possible we will not have sex again. We have only been married a little over a year so it's extremely disappointing to say the least. We have no kids and no distractions other than work. when I travel for business and come back home, you'd think that would spark something, but no. Not even passionate kissing. I know I'm not alone, but it does not help to lessen the frustration and sadness I feel at not feeling that close bond with my partner.
The poster couple for your hub, has to be Bill and Hillary
salsablondie~ There are studies that show both married having more sex and single having more sex, and maybe because it was a british study- American studies may be different. But here's what I think; the studies and statistics vary because if the study polls single people not in a realtiosnhip at all versus married people, then yes married folks have more sex. But if the study polls single people, INCLUDING those in a realtionship, but not married, then those people (single) make the statistics show single people having more sex. Most studies will show that people in a relationship, but not married, have the most sex, especially those living together but not married. I learned how to decipher studies taking a few master's college courses- it can be confusing and researches skew their results a lot.
On a personal note, with your marriage, you two have drifted apart mentally, intimately, and now physically. People tend not to notice when they drift apart in other ways until it gets to the lack of physical connection. Even you stated "not feeling that close bond with my partner" so that bond is missing and no sex is only a symptom or outcome of the real problem (s). When you travel, I don't believe absence makes the heart grow fonder. I'd think about what brought you two together, what do you have in common to share (hobbies). Something that counselors use to bring anybody closer together is to have them work on something together, to complete a task together. Also doing something physical together- antything like playing sports or video games. The main thing is to get you two interacting without even thinking about the sex part. Are there couple workshops or weekend getaways specifically for couples you can go to?
issuesveritas- you are funny!! I might have to add that picture to this hub.
badcompany99~ good sex, personally defined and not defined by the media, is ideal in a relationship. I'm with you on that one.
Is a marriage without sex still really a marriage - I have my doubts, unless there are other factors involved.
Love and peace
Tony
Great point tonymac04!
I don't know. I've been much married, and I'd say that great sex and good marriage don't always go hand and hand. This is what is constantly being shoved at us, but life doesn't always cooperate. Overwork, kids, pregnancy, nursing, illness, (even chain smoking can cause impotence or erectile dysfunction)--and then if a married couple isn't going at it like a couple of rabbits they begin to feel like, damn here's yet ANOTHER stress, we aren't doing it enough.
What's 'enough'? I think we focus on sex way too much and on love and companionish way too little. That's just my feeling, but I think I'm definitely in the minority. If two people are happy, they shouldn't feel obligated to live up to some sexual standard set by...by whom exactly? If two people are not happy, great sex will only cover over that for awhile. Eventually sex alone won't be enough.
Brave hub. Thanks for writing it!
pgrundy~ I agree about the point that lack of sex becomes another stress or issue in a relationship. It shouldn't be that way.
Statistics in magazines and talk shows display stats constantly so I know why couples think they have a problem if their sex life isn't considered the standard. I hate these stats because sex shouldn't be measured weekly or by amount. Personally, I don't think sex is worth having unless we're both into it and that makes it "good", not trying to keep up with the Jones' on yet another aspect of our life.
The focus on sex is typically from men- that is the way they (supposedly) show and feel love. But it isn't enough, as you and I both agree, for a successful relationship. It may be enough for a man who is emotionally immature, then he does not know how to show his love in other ways, but that is truly an issue that should be worked on, not having more sex so he can continue to not learn how to express his love in other intimate ways.
So let's get rid of the 'How many times per week' poll and substitute it with 'how many times do you feel emotionally close to your partner per week'. I bet that stat result would be suffering much more than sex.
Thanks for your comment and stopping by : ))
IZETTI,
You make a lot of interesting points.
I research a lot of history in my writing (Romance Genere), and throughout history Marriage had very little to do with sex and more to do with what a person could bring to the union in the way of property, money, personal gain.
It wasn't until the turn of the 20th century that couples actually began to marry purely for love.
I have been married for 30 years. I have experienced the ebb and flow of passion in my relationship. Everything from "OMG! I can't wait to get my hands on that man!" to "If I have to look at that slug in the recliner for one more second I'm gonna have ta shoot myself!" LOL...But seriously There is a foundation of friendship between myself and my husband so when we hit those times when we're not so sexually attracted to eachother we still can find the reason why we are still together. Because we respect eachother. Because we like eachother's company. Because we can have a conversation of substance.
When the sex wanes and the kids eventually fly from the nest you've got to have something more than sex to hold you together.
Sure who doesn't love a great lusty romp, now and then (...and Izetti, I promise that WILL happen again ) but Companionship, respect, of like interests, and a great sense of humour is what really counts...for me anyway.
Thanks for giving us something to talk about! Great job.
Take Care,
Adrianna
Adriannas pages~
I thoroughly enjoyed your comment- very positive and I didn't know the history of marriage, although thinking back to my history classes I do remember some of the points you make about the original purpose of marriage.
If you're with someone for the long haul, no aspect in the relationship will be constant, especially sex- and that brings me back to pgrundy's point about the unnecessary focus on sex.
HILARIOUS!!! "OMG! I can't wait to get my hands on that man!" to "If I have to look at that slug in the recliner for one more second I'm gonna have ta shoot myself!"
Thanks for the comment!
There is a lot in what you and our fellow hubbers have to say. To add to your last statement,quote " at what point the sex began to slow down", it is equally important to know why the sex began to slow down
sabu singh- hopefully by knowing when the sex slowed or stopped, you can figure out why and what happened during that time to cause it. I agree, knowing why is most important, because there are not always clear reasons like impotency or kids, etc. SOmetimes the reasons are emotional.
Thanks for your input!
Ha Ha OMG, couldnt possibly comment on this one, Alright then, when we both are in the mood , great..........when he's in the mood, quickie...when I'm in the mood, guess!
Sometimes you have to make the extra effort when you are not iniatally interested. Not just with sex, but other things as well. If you are not willing to do this then you are not committed.
Izettl, you wrote well so a thumbs up is in order. Just to add to your point (I will be writing a hub on tha soomn). the biggest factor which I conveive in a relation between a man and a woman is not sex or marriage, but t is the sense of security that a woman gets in that relation. basically a man needs to have sex while a woman needs romance in life. A woman who is not secure in a relation would intentionally or unintentionally try to keep her man and that usually brings more sex in their insecure relation. As the relation becomes more secure which happens in the event of a marriage, the same woman takes control of the frequence and that is how the term "Not tonight honey I have a headache" came into being. In other cultures couples who are more cordial and intimate teh freuency of sex is less as compared to those where a woman tris to keep her marriage intact.
Think about it!
Thank you for the marvelous hub. It's nice to know one isn't alone in the dark when concerns about sex arise. Sex, to many of us, is a form of communication. It offers a safe area where we can push aside barriers. In my case, the sexless marriage scenario came immediately upon the heels of the hurried honeymoon with no time to savor much.
My husband's demanding job and his need to be available 24/7 with aquiring it in mid-life, brought pressures I had not considered. Couple this with demands from an ailing mother and my spouse's proximity to parents after years on the road and the pressures soared. Then, add needs of adult children from both sides and the lid to the cooker sealed tightly.
Thank you for being there and making the contact with compassion.
Owais Siddiqui~ I agree with some of your point, but you present it as a bait and hook scenario. A woman baits a man with sex and once she has his committment (marriage) she has hooked him and does not give into sex as often. My question would be why she doesn't feel the need or desire the sex as often.
The counter position to that is the man being more romantic when he is courting a woman and once he has her committment, he is less romantic and cordial, therefore a woman desires to have sex with him less. Most marriages are not "romantic" in nature- it ca ncome and go too. Once the dating has ended, and marriage begins, each person usually falls into their old routines (like watching a lot of tv, etc) prior to dating.
Also, even when a woman feels insecure in a marriage and believes her husband may cheat on her, she will not usually try to have sex with him more to secure that relationship- she usually denies him even more.
agartha~ Life really seems to get in the way of sex and romance. You are definitely not alone or else I wouldn't have had any inspiration to write this hub. Myself, and so many couples of all ages (for so many reasons) have lack of sex for long periods of time. I wanted to write this hub because I am always amazed at how many people I know have this concern.
Izetti...If you think that comment was funny, take a look at my recent hub "Recipe For Writing The Great American Romance Novel"
Talk about "fantasy" expectations in a relationship...but that's entertainment!
Take care,
Adrianna
Nice!!! i like it.
I would like to offer a working class male's perspective. I don't say that what I am going to say is correct but it is what I have heard over and over again in the 30 years I have been working with men in industrial settings. This is not to blame or find quilt it is just something women might want to consider.
Sex is vert important to most men. This should not come as a shock because we have heard for years that men feel close when having sex and women feel close when talking, sharing, and cuddling. So what would happen to lead a man to give up on sex or desiring sex?
Other than physical ailments the number one comment I have heard is "what's the point, she'll just say no again anyway." Men have the feeling that they are shut down when desiring sex more, often than not. A man seems to feel rejected when he desires sex and the wife does not. A lot of this has to do with how the wife responds. If the man approaches the wife and she says something like, "stop it, just leave me alone," with irritation in her voice, the man will feel belittled. On the other hand if the wife says something along the lines of, "I'm tired but I'd really like to do something tomorrow night." The man can feel that, even though it didn't get sex, his wife still wants to be with him.
I think men have a very strong desire, even a need, to be a hero in the eyes of the woman in his life. I have heard many single women say, "Oh that's so childish." Probably so but the reality is men are childish sometimes. If you want a man who will be your partner you have to make him feel important. I don't think women understand this because they don't seem to have the same hero needs that a man does. This idea of needing to be a hero really makes sense I think when you consider a huner/gatherer clan. The men who were successful were the ones who could protect and provide and they may have needed the drive that comes from wanting to be a hero to fulfill these duties.
A man never outgrows the need to be the hero in a woman's eyes. My Grandfather lived to be 95 years. He buried three wives. He could never do anything correct in the eyes of the first one. They did not have a good marriage. The last two wives thought he was a great man and told him that. In return he gave them his love and affection and a good life. He beamed with pride whenever they would give him a compliment.
Again I have heard women say, "I'm not going to put a man on a pedestal." I agree but would it be so hard to make the man feel good about himself? I have never seen a marriage break up in which the woman made the man know that he was important. This does not mean a woman should put up with abuse of any kind. If a man is abusive to anyone he needs to be removed from the woman and the family. But if he is a generally good man, if he tries to support his family, if he doesn't mistreat you then let him be the hero and you will have a devoted husband.
As I said at the beginning this is a completley one sided view of this situation. All I can do is offer what I have seen and thought about as a perspective on what happens to facilitate a sexless marriage.
You can agree or disagree but I would ask that you at least consider what I have written.
Thank you
Thanks lawretta
andy_bacon~ excellent insight! You are right about the most important thing a man needs is to feel like he is a good man and hero in the eyes of his woman. But a woman needs her man to make her feel like a lady.
I will elaborate even further- I think recent generations have gotten to a point where women feel as though they don't need a man- they are doing or have done everything he has plus give birth. Also what women want is to feel like a woman even though she has taken on many male traits, especially to survive at work. I would give out sex to my husband by the truckloads if he opened doors for me, made plans for us (instead of ME asking him and making the plans), bought me lingerie, gave me a massage, and basically treated me like a lady. Personally I went from cut throat business woman (working with mostly guys) to full-time mom and somewhere in between I lost the woman/lady role.
Men also take women for granted when they marry- because they EXPECT sex rather than put effort in for it like they did pre-marriage.
We're at a point where women do men's things and men do women's things and it's all mixed up.
GREAT COVERSATION !---- at 75 including 44 years of marriage to the same woman---I would guess I have experienced much of what has been discussed here --- but with the twist of having married a "cold fish " --- ( back in the days of no sex before marriage ) --- interesting how after our 4 kids were out of the nest --- we were stuck with dealing with the UNRESOLVED " bagage " we both brought to the relationship --- it would take a BOOK to adequately describe the past 20 years ---- but I would say that the DESIRE TO MAKE THE RELATIONSHIP WORK --- THE NEED and COURAGE TO FACE THE TRUTH ABOUT ONESELF --- THE ONGOING DESIRE TO CONTINUE TO LEARN --- THE ABSOLUTE NECESSITY TO COMMUNICATE ---- THE NEED TO FORGIVE BOTH ONESELF AND THE OTHER PERSON --- and the NEED FOR OUTSIDE INTERESTS ---- and a SENSE OF HUMOR top the list of making the relationship work ---- we still have a HOT DATE about once a week because it is an absolute MUST for a MALES SENSE OF WELL BEING AND THINKING YOUNG --- and my " recovering " wife does understand that --- and hey --- ITS SPRING AND TIME TO GET HER PREGNANT " ONE MORE TIME ! " --- OH --- and one more thing -- ( the men from mars -- women from venus thing ) --- I have started doing the toughest thing for males to do --- indulge in SMALL TALK with my bonny bride --- and she has noticed and is responding in a more positive manner ---- HEY we are going to work this thing out in another 15 or 20 years --- and maybe we can write a book about it and THEN RETIRE IN COMFORT
I agree Izetti with everything you say. It is amazing how we can be so out of touch with the ones we love and don't do the little things they desire.
Good luck with the spring time Grampa Ken. You gotta get up everyday and keep trying.
grampa ken~ THank you for your input- you have the experience for sure and I commend you for that. Your words are wise and should be put to book.
I worked at a restaurant where the elderly frequented and being the avid people watcher that I am, I noticed what the couples -who had been married longer than I've been alive- acted around each other. THe man ordered for his wife (traditional and cute), she buttered his toast, he put two sugars in her coffee, she cut his meat because he had bad arthritis- all these little gestures that they were still doing for each other- and they looked reasonably happy. This is just an example of the types of things that the oldest and happiest couples would do for each other.
andy_bacon~ we agree to agree then! Maybe to add onto, or sum up, what we're both saying is that it's a lot about how the other person makes you feel.
dear izettl
First of all, I'm single. In other words, I have no experiences and my knowledge about this object isn't too much.
But I understand from you that marriage should be perfect I mean
Love+ marriage = not perfect
Sex+ marriage=not perfect
Love+ sex+ marriage= perfect
On one hand, if these things gathered together, marriage will be perfect.
On the other hand, if these things aren't available, divorce will happen
I'm Syrian and I like the western culture . so I hope that you will accept my opinions
And thank you for this object.
and i hope that you will give me your opinion about
my article which written by me above
glad to hear that you too are a "people watcher "IZETTI --- it is a MARVELOUS SPORT --- and incredibly instructive ---- BECOME A STUDENT OF EYES ---- because the eyes truly are the WINDOWS OF THE SOUL ---- and they can SPEAK REAMS ABOUT A PERSON ---- without that person ever OPENING THEIR MOUTH AND UTTERING A SINGLE WORD --- and CONTINUE YOUR IMPORTANT RESEARCH INTO THE MARRIAGE RELATIONSHIP IZETTI ----SERIOUS AND RESPONSIBLE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE SEXES IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO THE SURVIVAL OF THE INSTUTION
and -- by the way --- as a trained artist --- I can tell --- even from that tiny little photo of you that you are a LOVING CARING PERSON who is gaining in wisdom and understanding --- those are wonderful traits IZETTI --- I hope your man FULLY APPRECIATES THEM ---- you might also enjoy my comments about marriage at the HUB " WHY MEN NEED SEX " ---- marriage is a marvelous institution and absolutely wonderful way to learn about life and oneself and others --- especially if you are the type of person who looks at life as ONE GREAT BIG " LEARNING CURVE OPPORTUNITY" and love to contiue to learn
grampa ken~ What I've learned about marriage...you think you know yourself until you get married. Men learning How to get women to give plenty of sex in a marriage is probably as tough as women learning how to get men to communicate. Another thing I learned from my relationship, others', and some of your wisdom is that when sex diminishes so does communication or maybe the other way around- chicken or the egg?
Thanks again for your great comments and advice.
marriage without love is not marriage
marriage is dinner and sex is desert
dinner can be good without desert but desert makes it special.
It should be redundant to say love AND marriage.
If desert is not on the menu for dinner then don't expect it, it won't be there.
Desert is not an obligation, it is a special treat.
We all need special treats.
ok, but what do you mean by special treats?
and you mentioned that marraige without love isn't marraige.
so if you don't have sex with your wife what do you think may happen?
i think that love will end and betraying will start
issues veritas~ well put "Desert is not an obligation, it is a special treat." I surely don't want dessert after every dinner, it's not as special or appetizing when it's expected.
Remon and issues veritas~ One of the points in my hub is the expectations that go with sex. Expectations vary from person to person. Most couples don't discuss their expectations of sex. Many men expect sex to continue and thrive just as before marriage, but when people are married they share other intimate aspects of a long-term relationship and there should be just as much satisfaction derived from those things than having more sex.
yes men "need" sex, but once married they should also learn to develop that single need into other ways of expressing and receiving love. To show and give love in one way (sex) is emotionally immature. A husband who concentrates on the sex aspect in a relationship,and has wife is making his dinner, doing his laundry, making his lunch (with a love note), and taking care of his children, is missing the meaning of love if he only sees the sex aspect.
izetti
I could try to wiggle out of it, but I screwed up.
Dessert, none for me, until I proof read.
--
My point on using the dessert analogy was that, the treat was for both parties and not as the means to convey their love. We say sleeping together, when we don't really mean sleep. We also say making love together, when it is really sex. When a married couple has love and they have sex, it is included in that love. If they don't have love, then it is just sex. The love is the core that binds them, and the sex is whatever they want it to be.
Issues veritas- no biggie on the spelling- I'm not perfect either.
Anyway, I do know what you mean. When married/relationships, love shouldn't be a seperate category as sex- they should be all inclusive. Sex is one aspect or expression of their love. I totally agree.
What's frustrating is that we hear more about sex or lack of sex rather than love or lack of love in relationships. If people concentrated on the true issue in the relationship, then the sex issue could solve itself in most cases. That's mostly society and science that like to have something measurable to rate a relationship and since love is subjective, it isn't easily measurable. So we concentrate on how many times a week a couple is having sex- that's easier to put into a statistc.
izetti
whats a couple of minutes during the week -- just joking.
To respond to your comment on love and lack of love. I think we are used to using sex as an indicator of whether the love is there or going away. When the sex in a relationship changes one way or another it is a gage of how the relationship is doing at any moment.
I didn't say it was accurate, I say that it is used as a gage.
This hub subject is really difficult and each relationship has to be evaluated individually. Expectations are also elusive and ambiguous especially when held silently by each partner.
Love must be one of the hardest things to define. A Supreme Court Justice was asked to describe "Pornography". His answer was that he could not describe it but said he knows it when he sees it.
Love could be hard to describe and easier to see, or feel.
Thanks for the thoughtful Hub, and the equally thoughtful responses to the comments. Unfortunately for some of us, there are those people who make wonderful companions, but when the honeymoon is over, their desire for their partner dies. They are unable or unwilling to try to rekindle the fire. They seem to be more in love with "being in love" than they are in love with their partner.. and mutual friendship and respect, not matter how deep and caring, can make for a pretty thin diet when your desire has not died.
Marriage without sex is similarly like having family without kids. Something missing. Yes, the quality of sex is far important than the quantity. Respect and understanding each other in sex life is become important. Your hub is indeed excellent.
issues veritas~ "I think we are used to using sex as an indicator of whether the love is there or going away." I like this and explains my point better than I did. I wish we could all relax and just be married, not comparing ourselves to the average or this year compared to last year, etc.
Redelf~ thank you for your comment. I do know the "being in love with love type". That's a tricky one to deal with and a good point ot make on this subject.
abinavis~ thanks for the compliment and I agree that sex should be a part of marriage but not the whole thing or the single thing to concentrate on of course, just like kids are part of a family but there are other relatives, etc.
dear izettl
maybe you think that i'm just kid but i comment on your subject because this issue is very important and i don't want you to misunderstand me about my opinions .
i respect your subject other wise i wouldn't comment on it.
but there is some one who is mocking of my opinion when he said
i'm just single. Ok, i do but you my brother you were singleor not
izettl i have parents and i know the importance of love in marriage
but you are the western consider that sex is a symbol of love
but at the same time it is desire if the husband and thewife didn't respect this relation
It is a fact that some people have marriage without sex. Your hub is based on practical fact.
Yes it is a simple fact and it represents a lot more marriages than one might think.
Some couples accept it and others don't but what I want everyone to know is that they shouldn't base their personal decision on what the average couple is represented in the media or the statistics.
Thanks for stopping by...
izettl, This is really a great hub. Let me put this way sex is looked at different angles at different places. It is a universal fact that Sex is essential part of marriage life. It is true that communication is main bridge between the couple. However in actual practical problem nothing works. So there are a lot of problem relating to sex. It is because a couple not understanding in depth need of sex by a wife or a husband. Prostitution flourished because of this problem at home.
The problem lies when either partner in a marriage keeps track of how often they're having sex- that's media's role. Any scorekeeping is detrimental to a relationship. I've talked to couples who are perfectly happy and when asked when their last sexual encounter was, they have to think back and sometimes it's easily been months, maybe a year, but they're otherwise happy and fulfilled.
So it seems if sex is a big issue, then there is definitely an underlying issue about something else because one thing (even if it's lack of sex) shouldn't make a couple or person so unhappy. All aspects of a relationship should matter, not just one singled out.
Problems on the aspect of sex in a relationship covers a variety of reasons why it occurs. The reason could be physiological or psychological. It could be because the other person has an affair that’s why his/her energy is not focused to just one partner, or has an illness or a concern that affects his/her drive for sex, or is physically not present for his/her partner due to the demand of his/her job and therefore is not able to perform this intimate act with his/her partner. There’s a lot more of factors available for consideration when it comes to this complex subject.
An idea that could be a starting point in dealing with this issue is the belief that: ‘Sexual intercourse is an artistic expression of oneself with the other person in an intimate way. It is intimate because a person performs the act of sex with his/her partner in a very personal way. It is an art because it is in itself an expression of oneself.’
Aspects on quantity of sex vs. quality, routinary vs. spontaneous sex, and sexual performance vs. problems are all factors of why the self's expression through sexual intercourse is laying low. Sex is the expression of a one’s desire to be one with the other. When it comes to this issue it is 10% about the other (your partner) and 90% about oneself (you). It always takes two to tango. It is not just about the other person. It is most of the time a question of ‘Why is this desire of mine to be one with my partner is ceasing?’ Always go back to the idea of sex as an expression of oneself, and therefore, ask yourself and let your partner ask himself/herself too of why this passion you both have for each other had gone. Once you laid each of your cards on the table, then you can start having the dialogue and settle whatever factors that affects you both.
The next question probably is ‘how can we both rekindle the fire we have for each other like before?’ That’s going to be another topic.
illustros~ I'm not even exploring the physical reasons- physical reasons aside (illnesses, disorders, etc) as I stated in the hub, there are many reasons why two people are not intimate sexually. But I believe it is 50/50, not 90/10 as you mentioned above. Communication, for instance, about expectations of sex once married is 50/50 so therefore the lack of sex would be as well, even if one person doesn't desire their partner and the other does.
For instance, a guy may expect sex from his wife, but is a jerk to her, so it isn't 90% about the woman in this case, it is at least 50% responsibility of the man to change his attitude if he desires his wife.
I know couples who don't have sex for several months at a time and are still engaged with each other in conversation and interests and intimate in other ways, but the difference is they communicated their expectations before getting married. Possibly, couples who have matching libidos and expectations of sex are happiest.Communication is a 50/50 responsibility.
Nice hub, izetti ;-)
my personal opinion is > it doesn't matter how often or seldom you have sex with your spouse...it's not the quantity but the QUALITY of sex you have....but having sex all the time or no sex at all is also "boring" or a bit odd and dull in a relationship. Unless otherwise there is "something wrong" or with the other partner (in fairness for those who cannot have sex or have sexless marriage) and they both agreed and or amenable to have no sex at all in their marriage life....or they might have some compromises....But sex "add spice" to the relationship and for as long as there is what they call "moderation" ;-)
This has been an interesting read. I won't get too personal but do want to say that I feel like in a role reversal situation. It can be frustrating when all the stereotypes you hear about what men want and what women want seem to be the opposite in my relationship.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
Sex is just a waste of good quailty sleep time. Married 43 years and my wife and I hadn't had sex in about 30 years. Not interest and really don't care about it.
nat! interesting comment. If neither you or your wife miss sex then you are in agreement and probably why you've been married so long- you actually agree on something. Most couples have very different needs and wants from each other.
izz, My husband and I have been married for 36 years. The sex is better now that our kids are out on their own. We get so busy with the family life, working, taking care of the kids is a lot of stress. We have found each other again and it is great! Hang in there it will get better. lol
izz, sorry in the fan mail I said John's hub, but it was Joe B
I'm Nat's wife, he wrote a few months ago, and I would like to say my part. When first married I enjoyed sex and so dis he. As time went on he got bored,he suggested ways to help but I thought it was terrible to do some of the positions and other things. Well from about the same he said it was usless to have sex with me, OMG was I hurt and upset, I think I was so mad I could have casterated him while he was asleep. But needless to say I got control of myself, and also I was pregnant. He wasn't excited about that either. After the baby was born
sex was very sparatic this went on for 5 years. His only comment was he would have sex was for me. I wanted kids, I again ended up pregnant. After this child he turned sex off all together.He purposely worked nights so we could take care of the kids. Me work days Him work nights. It worked rather well. But months turned into years in fact 40 years and now he has medical issues and he takes meds this further ruined his sex life. I suppose you could say I was abused by him and its probably my own fault for staying with him. Probably should have gotten a divorce and moved back home. Well I didn't I lived with all this and we get along fine, I don't miss sex. Were roomates now.
amy! I guess I misread Nat's comment when he stated "no interest and really don't care about it" I thought he was talking about both of you. But it seems you did care about the lack of sexualy intimacy at one time- maybe in your earlier days. You at least needed to be fulfilled on an intimate level. Many couples stop having sex and it becomes routine to skip it, but that doesn't mean it just goes away. There needs to be something put in it's place. Some couples have to stop having sex due to illnesses, but they are "intimate" in other ways. Holding hands, kissing, etc. You are not really connected to your husband anymore and mostly from what I can tell is because he didn't appeal to or meet your emotional needs an hurt your feelings. Mental abuse kills intimacy for women so I am sorry for the years you may have missed out on intimacy, but things have reached a stalemate for you and him. How do you know you don't miss sex?
This hub is exactly what I was looking for!!!! I being married for 2 years ( i can count with my hands the times we had sex during that period of time, it is not normal!!!!). I will like your advice....... because honestly, I'm so confused. I never expected that sex could be so important in a relationship but my husband has very low libido ( it would be ok if both were the same libido but we are not!!! ). I have already tried to speak to him about this and he is always telling me that is because of work that he feels very tired ( I'm not asking for too much at least having sex once every week or every two weeks, is that too much???) Because of this and because of lack of topics in common I feel really unhappy and getting to the point where I am asking myself if it is really worth it to carry on with this realtionship. On the other hand he is excelent husband... he is always looking after me and I know he loves me so much but at the moment I feel very confused. Even though I have already tried to spoke to him about the lack of sex and lack of comunication , he does not know that this is a tought that has being going in my head since long time ago and that is killing me slowly.
I have been thinking about getting divorce and the worse is that he thinks that everything is ok.
What can I do???? please I need and advice. I havent spoke to anybody about this. PLEASE HELP!!!!!
"unreconciled differences" is the number one reason people divorce. So with all the differences you talk about between your husband and you, it is easy to seee how you feel. There will usually be one partner more (or less) interested in sex than the other, and that can even change throughout the relationship, hence ebbs and flows, but it sounds like you and husband have a clear position about intimacy- you want it he doesn't. Was he like this before you married? Did you two have topics in common before getting married- you need to look at why you got married to him specifically. Were all the differnences between you always there? If not, what has changed? Can he remember a time when his libido was good? If so, then what was different during that time. Worries about finances are one libido killer for men and you say he is tired from work. What is making him tired at work? Also, has he had a health/physical check-up. Sometimes men with low libidos have underlying health issues.
The most important thing is to make a plan. If/when you can rule out physical problems, then work on the mental. Ask him how he feels loved by you. What is it that you do that shows him you love him? Then turn the question around and tell him what makes you feel loved by him and one of those things you can mention is intimacy. Don't go right for sex, intimacy is more of a need than sex, just some of us think sex is the only expression of intimacy, but doing other physical things together like kissing, sitting close, snuggling, is good to get sex going eventually. You may want a million dollars, but you have to take steps to get what you want. You have to make a hundred dollars before you can make million.
Back to "unreconcileable differences". If he knows how important sex is to you then he needs to bend a little to come to a compromise with you. Also, having things in common helps the relationship survive for the long haul, but my main question goes back to what made you marry him? Do you two have the same goals at least, like where you see your lives going together. Most therapists will have each spouse write out a list of what they want/expect from a husband/wife. Then you can come together and review that together. You could even list on a scale of importance so he knows what is most important to you or what you would consider getting a divorce over.
Izettl, thank you for your answer it really helps. Regarding your question (was he like that before getting married?) yes, he was!!!!!.....and the most common escuse was his work. We used to argue a lot about that..... now I don't argue anymore I just became more distant towards him. .....I don't know!!!! perhaps is the culture difference I am latin and he is from easter Europe. We will see, I will try to work on the list you mentioned before.
Thank you very much for your help, I really appreciate that.
monica~ well you two do have cultural differences for sure. what's most important is that he knows how important it is to you. Also it might help to do some fun physical activities together to get him used to being close to you- perhaps a sport together or playing something, somehow getting him to relax away from work. I would also do the list I mentioned, if you can- guys usually hate lists, but it doesn't need to be long. it's also good to keep those lists around throughout your marriage so you two can be reminded what's important to your partner. I know where you are at though and it's a tough spot where you get tired of your needs not being met and you just give up. Remind him that when a women stops talking it's usually a bad sign that she's given up trying to get her needs met and giving up is not good in a marriage. best of luck....
izettl simple incredible hub...
tribaldating: thank you that's a great comment from you as I enjoy your hubs as well. thanks for stopping by!
Been married 43 years and 30 or so without sex,intimacy or love. Why you ask are we still together !! Were on a fixed income and neither one of us could survive in the outside world. And in our mid 60s.
It all started when E/D entered my life and nothing could fix it. No little magic blue pills they make me so sick. My wife wanted sex I couldn't help her, this arguement went on for a couple of years. Over the years
I've gotten so tired to listening to all the name calling like freak, faggot, and the one that got me was when she said she wanted to castrate me. She was obviously not in the best of spirts. By then I don't care any more I don't love her and want to stay as far away as I can. We will die being at odds with each other.
Nat~ That's a very sad story and probably more common than people realize. Finances and convenience, kids, etc keep couples together when they are not having sex. I think when one partner can't (medically in your case) have sex then it forces the couple to focus on the other aspects of their marriage and those might not have been very strong to begin with so the love crumbles. Aside from that, it seems your story is most sad because you've been called names and the tone of your comment reflects that. We enter into a marriage contract (vows) that we will love through sickness and in health, but people have their own expectations in their head of how marriage should be. I would hope you find joy in other aspects of life and the marriage isn't draggning you down in general. She obviously needs to see you as a man in other ways besides sexually. Do you provide for her? earn money? fix things around the house, or other manly duties? Is the E/D medically based or possibly psychologically as well. I'm sure her name calling hasn't helped the matter. It sounds though her mind is made up about placing her anger and unfulfillment on you, but you are not responsible for her happiness. If she was really so unhappy she could have left the marriage- I know there were circumstances that made this hard, but she still could have. You need to remind her this was also her choice to stay. It reminds me of a couple I knew who, on the night of their honeymoon, the husband fell off a balcony and was paralyzed from waist down. His wife, though, was very appreciative just to have him alive. There are hard days, but marriage is so much more than just sex.
When men cheat, it generally has little to do with the attractive factor of the other woman they’re cheating with. It’s all about the type of attention that woman is giving them, not their looks.
Eva~ you are absolutely right
Very informative and thoughtful. Thanks for the hub!
This has been a real eye opener.
Grandpa Ken said he was a people watcher and could tell so much just from looking at people's eyes!
When I asked my wife's mother if we could get married she said that she wouldn't stand in our way but she didn't approve because she said that I didn't love her daughter.
In some strange way I knew she was right - but we knew we needed each other and have been married now for over 50 years - and have seven grandchildren. I had often wondered why I lived life on such an even keel - an almost total lack of emotion! It was just over a couple of years ago that I discovered that I had lived with ASPERGERS SYNDROME all my life. Because of a lack of ability to make eye contact people with AS are often seen to be aloof. It is also recognised that the majority of people with AS never marry.
I have always been interested in psychology and have attended a number of counselling skills courses in the past. The discovery of the awareness of AS has been exciting - it explains so much of the way that I have looked at life over the years - and the endless ways people react with each other but this was one area where my knowledge is very limited. I can't remember the topic of love, sex and marriage being discussed in any great detail.
As I said this has been a real eye opener!
Old Pete~ thanks for the comment. I previously read your Asperger's hub. Very good, by the way. I've watched shows and documentaries about people with it. I didn't learn much about it in my Psych courses at school- just a little bit. When I was in college, it was around the time that ADD got all the attention.
THanks for sharing your insight.
There are always ways to cope... my partner... had medical issues also... complete atrophy in the lower part of the body after cancer... that was twenty years ago and there were some years of pain... we finally ended up not as roommates... like so many non sexual couples do... but more like children... both of us set out to find every way we could love one another... other than sexually... I won't paint it perfect... but love is a strange thing... it grows... either more or less... you get to choose... intimacy is defined by those who bath in it's waters... waters becoming warmer when used... colder if abused... love grows... try not to hurt one another... the child in our souls fears it so... I never needed sex as a child to be happy... so it possible... oh and the bonus is... just when you least expect it... sexual intimacy arrives... maybe not as you had planned... but still an amazing... cloud appearing over the desert sand... enjoy life... it's what you were made for...
Jeanine~ you are lucky to have found the love you did and not because it's perfect but because it still flourishes when it's not perfect. Life and love is really about resiliency. It seems everybody wants things now and do not realize there are points in life when sex or other things won't be optimal. It's a small picture in the broad scheme of things. Very true about children. I see how happy my 3 yr old is all the time and she has no idea what sex is. I really love your view on this topic.
yeah I have a grandson that is three... and he is amazing... always on ten... so loving and so excitable... lessons for all of us... to learn and to live...
Jeanine~ 3 yr olds are great teachers.
I really, really like this, because it's something I've been questioning, even though I've never actually been married. I've always wanted to know what happens with sex after marriage,and why it seems to decrease so much in a lot of marriages. This gives me a lot of insight. Thanks for posting it.
theoctopusjar~ Thanks for stopping by. I'm glad this gave you some insight- hope it didn't scare you from away form the idea of marriage. Marriage just gets more complicated than dting relationships. Sometimes the complications are fun, like having kids, but many take a toll on the sex life. It's somewhat true.
With this site I'm in the big leagues now and feel gladly humbled.Kept looking for something I could add to this hub; no luck, still there might be... will just have to think on it when applicable.
early on sex is a lot like reading a local or state map... when you first get together it's fun just to pull it out of the glove box and look at it (lol no pun intended)... after marriage sex is more like reading an atlas... it's very important to turn the page and visit every map in the book... don't get caught in one state... no matter how beautiful it is...
Alastar~ Well I am humbled as well- what a nice comment. Think it over and get back to me...
Jeanine~ Again, I have nothing more to say than I love your words, your advice, and your presence on my hubs! You've made my day many times and I have a lot of respect for you- from the beginning, your first comment. Thanks again.
Nice hub
Great article and sound points. I'm one of the women who would be suicidal in a sexless marriage. I'd much prefer to be single over that, as I already have plenty of good company. It does seem that something goes very wrong in attraction and sex for some marriages. I'd really like to avoid that.
ahostagesituation~ unfortunately most people can't avoid the downward spiral of sex in a marriage. The reason; more people are single longer than ever and accumalate more sex partners. When single sex is compared to married sex, it will always seem married sex is more boring and easily loses its exictement. That's just one of the reasons. THanks for your comment.
Izettl, I and my ex had sex 10 times when we are in 2.5 years relationship. The quantity was not even meet an average annual mean score 12 times or 1 time per month. It's ridiculous and no point to keep the relationship with this guy. Cannot imagine sex life after marriage.
Thanks for your great hub :-)
Thanks Khalid!
Kesinee~ If you have different expectations than he does, then you can try to compromise or work together on it, but if that's just the way he is and doesn't want sex, then it's better to get out now before you get married. Thanks for the comment and good luck!
It is a fact that some people have marriage without sex. Your hub is based on practical fact.
Marriage is actually much bigger than when we are single... if one explores the subtle changes... it can be like living in the rain forest...the canopy is always there and if one can look up often enough... one can stay in awe for years... if one finds the relationship boring... one but needs to open the mind and the heart will follow... if you see yourself as the only one who has ever been to this part of the forrest then,,, one begins to find things that are tailored just for the one who finds them...there are places that heal... reveal and sustain... supernatural... love...take the thing you love best... and look at it from every angle... turn it in every position to see the best possible light... and then enjoy it... once and move on... if one relationship is boring... try and be more creative... marriage is a mirror... it usually shows us ourselves... we think it's the other person but reality is... it's us... you are your own creator...
a unique thing about woman... she has the ability to adapt to almost any circumstance... I've found if one has the fortitude to encourage her for greatness.... she becomes great..... want a better wife treat her better... kinder... treat her with kindness... each has the wife we help grow and develop... she has an amazing ability to reflect our feelings and behavior..... so I guess my question to all men is... how's your wife...
I know this to be true... because my own love... lover and friend of 41 years... never down me for not knowing what to do... taught me what was need and was patient with me until I learned to get about on mt own... my picture of marriage is with a love that was good, kind, patient and funny...now after years I am able to please as well as be pleased... but all the times I was unable to please... I never received harsh treatment in any way... I was dumb to the things of love... but had a love that showed me... now I will do anything because I am confident in my abilities... love one another... and remember to be patient...
J~ I've told you this before but I'd love to bottle your words sometimes- when you say marriage is a mirror and that analogy. Great wisdom.
In my experience, so many men have been with so many lovers that they are determined sex is a one size fits all. A willingness to be humble enough to learn is also helpful. Facing reality is if you are going to be with someone for the long haul then you need to be prepared and willing to be patient when times are tough, physical ailments, etc. Eventually there needs to be more interests besides looks and material objects in common.
Beauty is not to be underestimated... for to gaze upon a woman taller than the rest is a complete joy... to embrace a woman who is shorter than the rest is also complete in itself... many tribes believe one only has a certain amount of love to share... if shared with one person... then one has the ability to see love change and grow the person with whom you are involved... if one continued to give love away to different lovers... and I hear this is a lot of fun...lol... one is at a disadvantage... in trying to keep up with the seeds that are sown... therefore the relationship becomes disconnected from the main thrust(sorry lol) of real love... after many years of doing this... it dumbs the giver down... and could be a real reason... women see men as the less enlightened gender when it comes to romance, caring, and being aware of their loved ones needs... I could have said dumber... but I will leave that to each to decide on their own... the testosterone factor drives men... so women are not innocent here... desire is his gift.... discernment on where and which furrow the crop is planted in is hers... and all this time, you thought is was no fun being a farmer...lol...lol..
Great hub with very good points for married couples.
Jeanine~ as usual, but more than ever right now, your words leave me speechless. Me! of all people...speechless. A little bit of dissensitization dumbs down love in a series of scattered relationships. Thanks for this comment. I'm going to think on it more.
QudsiaP1~ thanks for stopping by and reading.
To izetti: Great hub as usual. Many couples, as they get older, have diminished sex drives and are no longer interested in sex while some couples are not just sexual to begin with. There are many people in the world, married and unmarried, who are not interested in sex.
Of course, there are some couple who dislike sex for one reason or another.
I totally agree, and the problem arises when one partner wants it and the other doesn't. Like many things marriage, we're not always on the same page at the same time- thanks for stopping be.
Beautifully written hub Izetti, intensity and number of times a couple has sex is differnt for each couple. In many societies girls are brought up telling sex is only to reproduce and have many mental blocks too.
Sweetie~ women are mental creatures and this can sometimes interfere with their sex lives. It's best if men can understand that about women and nurture that side of us- in a perfect world. Thanks for stopping by and being a fan.
It is a wonder how such a beautiful experience goes unpracticed by so many married couples. Thank you for this very interesting and informative insight into this subject. Cool Hub too!
oh I am soooo not the guy to agree- I am far to creative, but it is a nice article... :)
-johnathan-
Jonathan~ sometimes marriages kill creativity lol.
I have no clue... I'm creative :)
you must be creative and not married.
that's about right lol- and it's cool being single. I don't date much, as you know it is Friday, but I love writing and art and music. I guess I'm in love with someone already lol :)
(and do not say myself, that would be messed up lol, although there's nothing wrong with that)
:-)
you? because uh uh, I couldn't live in the shower :)
-johnathan-
well acutally it's Saturday and I'm married- that's why I'm here on the computer. I was single for a long time too- I'm kind of a loner type, but enjoy the companionship aspect of marriage. It is discouragin how quickly the sparks fade and how much work it acutally takes.
sorry my computer is on the fritz somehow....
anyway, I like you izetti, so check this out---
When I was in highschool, I was with the same girl for almost ten years. I was a cooler guy in school, so that's whatever. We were like Bristol's sweetheart couple. Then, one day, she walked in the door and wouldn't kiss me. I couldn't understand. My mother had always taught me to just be nice to girls, and I always was. I learned something though.
If it isn't fun, stop doing it. The two of us probably weren't having fun anymore, so I left. I think that fun is the key. Now I am single and not sure what I am doing, but she is okay and that's what matters. I think that if it isn't a goodtime, it isn't worth it.
p.s. I think we both read each other's profile at the same time :) so I wanted to tell you that I also studied Psych- for instance, did you know that after purchasing your food at a supermarket if you go to hand-off the receipt to an unexpecting passerby on your way out that they will take it from you 99% of the time for no reason lol? it always makes me smile
-johnathan-
too bad you're married lol, but that's cool- I've never 'talked' to married girl before lol :)
seems we're a lot alike in some ways- but marriage would ruin that! lol. I used to say that about relationships too- get out if it ain't working or isn't fun, etc. But then I'd never be in a relationship very long if that were the case. You learn to have fun in other ways, have your own life a little bit too. Honestly I never saw how quickly the fun suddenly stopped, but I have a 3 yr old daughter and that's about the time that life got a little more serious. I have tons of fun with her, but not with hubby anymore- he got really serious about life.
I completely enjoyed my single life- sometimes having a relationship here and there and other times not- having nobody (by choice of course- lol). I haven't got the marriage thing figured out, I need to exhaust all options before walking away- I'm a thorough girl.
I learned a lot of cool stuff like that in psychology- never heard the grocery store receipt thing but i totally believe it. People are funny, predictable yet still fascinating.
yeah, I know. look, fighting for a daughter is one thing izetti, but fighting for a relationship is bullsh*t in my opinion... FUN! fun doing dishes, fun in the shower, fun shopping., fun eating dinner together, FUN!!!! I am sorry I disagree, but if I am ever in the northwest, I'd love to take you for a drink :)
I am saying that it's supposed to be fun-
imagine you fighting for him for nothing- he's a luckyman... do not settle I am from Connecticut and I am a liberal!
you could try:
...role playing (extreme, but sexy!)
a vacationu
dinner + a movie
etc.
Have FUN dammit! no more fighting just sexy stuff if u can... he's supposed to fight for you- I understand fighting for a daughter, but not some guy. Anyways, you're cute, I owe you something if I'm ever there izetti
-johnathan-
read my previous post on this hub before the compliment... :-)
relationships tend to take a back seat to responsibilities- work, children, money, ailing parents, etc. spicing up sex is easier than putting fun back into the everyday things in a relationship- that "forced" fun feels like work.I was with a guy for 5 years and we could have fun doing anything- he was definitely my best friend, but the attraction (for me) wasn't there. I just never felt that passion or romance for him. So I can't say I've ever found a guy that has had both- both an attraction for and like my best friend as well.Hard to find maybe.
I always thought that if two people were meant to be together or good together then it wouldn't feel like work but honestly I think every couple (for sure if they're married) comes to a point when it is work. My husband used to be quite fun and funny, but he just said life got serious and that's that. It is hard to walk away because you know it's there. It's not like he was never fun so I hope it comes back or something sparks it back in him, etc.If it was there then there's no reason why it can't come back.
Can't say that I've been to CT, but it sounds great from what I've heard from people. I like WA (where I live) other than the famous rain!.
actually it will come back. it's serious because he has a child...and he wants to provide... it's a big part of being the guy in a marriage... the key to fun is you must look at it differently each day... yesterday was fun for yesterday, but creatives as you bot obviously are....Izettl and Jonathan, I'm referring to...have one more step thaan most people to learn about relationships...to keep you motivated you only need to dream what is today... and live it, other wise you will be unhappy... it is the trigger that makes the deal happen for creatives... try iy you'll like it... I'm sure... I am 41 years in with the same woman and I still don't know her... I know all the things she was but not all the things she is.... understand... and that's the key... one can not open new doors with old keys... enjoy the life that's given... if one changes one circumstance...one circumstance changes...
I approve this message jeanine! lol. The funny thing about relationships is it takes both- sounds so cliche, but it does. Giving and receiving- open to talk and open listen, etc.
My husband loves me so much and I him. But he doesn't talk much and says he already told me who he is and everything else when we met. What I'm trying to tell him is it doesn't stop there- he isn't the same person when we met forever. Things change and that's what you have onging conversations about. He has a way of answering questions with one word or yes or no- it's frustrating to communicate with. I think I'm on a need-to-know basis- lol. I wish he would enjoy life a little more- I don't know how to help him with that, but I'm not a quitter.
Oh my God, after reading this, I'm beginning to suspect I might be a man! :P Great hub, and encouraging to me to hear that this is relatively common, though I think my husband and I have our roles reversed. Here I am with women all around me complaining that "He wants sex AAAAALL the time," which just leaves me here thinking, "Okay, what's wrong with me, then?" Deep breath, I'm not alone, time to take up another hobby and take the pressure off that poor husband :P.
And...sounds like your husband communicates about as well as mine does. Of course, should I bring up the lack of communication, I'm told I talk all the time and need to be quiet for once. Hmmm...interesting that that's the line even if I haven't said a word to him in over 24 hours...
wychic~ sometimes the roles reverse. Sometimes they change thorughout a marriage too. Nothing is wrong with you of course- healthy libido!! I think i had one of those before kids- lol.
I overcommunicate and my husband undercommunicates- it's an interesting conversation. If that's your husband's line about talking too much sounds like he overgeneralizes. I get accused of the same thing even though I've been quiet- ugh!! Yes, time for new hobby- lol. THanks for stopping by.
Hi izettl, I believe that things happen when their supposed to & I found your article just as my husband & I are at our wits end! I don't want to write a book, but he's diabetic & 9 years older than me. I love him with my dying breath, but some days I think I will lose my mind from the "lack of" intimacy & sex! I have always been a very sexual & sensuous bigger woman & like wychic, I am the one always wanting it! I am a balanced being, so I know I retain masculine & feminine qualities. Its sad, we love each other, but this is a huge wedge that some days I wonder if we will overcome! Along with his health issues, he seems to just be comfortable watching tv. I know he loves me, he shows it very well. Oh & we've been married 28 years & have a great relationship, so trying to hold on to love without the benefits! Thank you. A great topic that needs to be discussed in a forum! Write me. :) Peace~Mysti~
Mysti~ I can relate but the other way around- to your husband. two years ago I got Rheumatoid Arthritis and was bed ridden for a few months. I know having this put a damper on things for my husband- even though I am managing it right now, it's something that comes and goes and my husband is sexually high charged. Health issues can really play a role in the sex department. I wanted to open this up for discussion a little more because I know a few people in your position and mine. I can see where you'd be extrememly frustrated because your husband's condition isn't likely to improve drastically so what do you do right? Wish I had an answer. Lots of hobbies like wychic said- lol.
geez man no fun there
maybe I am just young and stupid still or something :) ?
-johnathan-
Johnathan , it's not that, you are young, you are healthy... and that's a wonderful thing... not stupid... i read your poem very graphic... Oh my... did that feel good to hear me say it...lol...lol you go boy, don't stop for anything, because she's out there and she knows she has your number... just hasn't called it yet...lol...lol
Hi izettl, I have health issues too, chronic pain & the likes, but I believe sex helps release endorphines that can help pain. I do understand being ill & not wanting sex, especially due to pain. I have arthritis & fibromyalgia, thyroid & a blood clotting disorder, so if I can still want it, that says a lot! lol. I'm not "old" but even seniors seem to be having sex! Tv doesn't help when it shows everyone having sex the moment they meet & it lasting all night & being perfect. My husband & I have had some "howling, fantastic sex" the first 10-14 years of our marriage, then he got sicker, then I got sick & we just kept taking turns. Now, we have each other & we do love each other tons! We've been through a lot together, we have trust, we can talk about anything, we cook for each other, have older kids, Grandkids, pets & keep busy, but to a sexual person, sometimes you can never be busy enough to not want intimacy & good sex! Hormones don't help either, for both! Yep, some days I figure, he's worth it and having each other is better than not being together because of sex. Sex is great, but its not something we have to have, like air, food, water... :) It's nice that we hold hands, sleep butt to butt, laugh, cry & even scream now & then, so maybe we're pretty normal. lol. Counting my blessings~ Hang in there sweetie, it will get better, it will. :)
@ Mystiblu -- I agree, sex helps a lot when things don't feel good! Granted, other than a sciatic nerve injury, I don't have a lot of physical complaints. He has severely arthritic knees, but in the past that's only limited variety. However, he says, "The stress of dealing with the kids just kills my libido." For me, it's that stress and everyday stuff that seems to be enhancing that libido -- sex is the only way that I can express every emotion I have in a positive way, and he doesn't even have to listen to me talk :P. Trust me, any other ways I've found to express feelings of frustration and aggression have not been well-received.
The only problem with the hobbies, is that so far they've led me to be healthier and have more energy -- kind of counter-productive in this context. To date, I own and run my own business, have two kids, and also enjoy biking, yoga, Pilates, fishkeeping, running, baking, volunteering for the local animal shelter, volunteering as a coordinator for Bountiful Baskets, sewing, beading, micro-macrame, crochet, button crafts, polymer clay, gardening (we just moved into a place with a massive and horribly overgrown yard replete with trees, bushes, and flower beds) -- and I've even been learning automotive repair, and getting halfway decent with our vehicles. In any given week, I participate in no less than half of these, and usually all of them. Like I said, I need more hobbies if I'm going to make it through this "dry spell" ;).
Hi there wychic, my gosh you have a lot of hobbies!! :) I keep myself busy with a lot of things & since the publishing of my book recently, I stay even busier! I'm in the marketing phase & also working on a second book. I like crafts, gardening, playing my flute, my fur & feather kids, sewing & working on getting healthier. I run several Spiritual discussion groups, have for years & have my own website, blog & much more. I can feel changes coming, because with the book finished, I feel I'll be shifting a few things around. I do have difficulty getting around some days, for now, but my health is improving. I go through times when I vent my frustrations & then it passes. I feel my husband has internalized a lot of the issues also that doesn't help much with his libido & his drive for sex & intimacy. He's comfortable in our relationship & our life together. He doesn't fear I will up & leave him because of the sex issue, I have much more respect for him than that. For me, sex used to be like a drug, I wanted it, needed it & it got me high & made me feel loved, appreciated & more. I also had to overcome issues about how I viewed sex. When sex wasn't in my life, I literally felt I was being punished. My husband was military, out to sea for six months at a time & I have always been faithful. He was in for 30 years! As we grow older & are with someone for many years, things do change, but there's much more to think about than just sex. Yes, it bothers me, not having sex, I don't smoke or drink or do drugs either, lol, but I do get high on life & love, so life isn't so bad, not at all. I just would like to get laid a few more times before I get too old, LOL.:) Peace~
Mystiblu, that's hard to fathom going through 30 years of that :S. My husband was in the Navy for 6 1/2, but that's before we got together. Other than the first six months (long distance) we've never been apart. I know he also internalizes a lot of things, and sometimes it will take weeks or months before he'll reveal the frustration. Right now he's unemployed; he seems to be happy tending kids and home while I write, but I have no doubt that he still feels a bit emasculated by that. I'm still trying to get to the point of being completely happy without the physical side of the relationship, but I'd hoped I'd get more than three years of it ;). I'm sure eventually it'll come back, but for now I just try to refocus.
Good to hear about the book! I have several eBook outlines and have been working on a training course, but actually FINISHING the big projects is always a huge challenge. My highs are all from life too, which is another thing dear hubby can't seem to get the hang of (smoker, drinker) -- he has just decided that people who love crafts should have their very own mental disorder :P.
Izettl is great!
-johnathan-
Hi Izetti, I like your hub and some of what you have to say. I am one of the happy,sexually satisfied,and gushing married couples, however it took us 13 years to get where we are. My husband and I were high school sweethearts but without God in our lives we would be just where you guys are. You do not allow outside things to break the bond of a husband and wife. The bible tells you how a man should love and treat his wife just as it tells us how to treat our husbands. I use to get upset about porn, but it was not about me it was about me at all. Ladies listen and listen good. MEN Want Sex the nastier the better, peace when they come home, and a happy, sweet lady like wife in public; who can play the part of a high class whore in the bedroom.
Men are visual creatures I stopped getting upset at my husband watching porn, and while he is at work I will check out what he was looking at and add it to my next showcase with him. He watches less porn and more of me wondering what else I will do next. Men are NASTY when it come to sex and are sometimes fearful of what we as female will think if they ask for certain sexual favors.
You think your man watches too much TV or spend too much time playing the playstation get naked and clean the room he is in walk in his line of site giving him something else to focus on. Remember to say you love someone means loving them enough to change yourself first.
Jonathan~ I found a lot of myself (before marriage) in what you are saying. I had these ideas and expectations of marriage and avoided it until I was 31. Actually I was anti-marriage for a while. Then I got more serious with the man who would be my husband and I wanted more fun, a new adventure, something different to experience like marriage. I took 'the leap' and yes, it has been an adventure. So many lessons to learn, but one being it isn't all fun.
I know a little about Jeanine's marriage and it seems great and ideal from what I know. Not sure if I can get to that enjoyable part in my marriage again because we are 'working on it' and that implies work.
You're not young and stupid, you have expectations. The biggest mistake people make before getting married is not voicing those specific expectations. We fall in love, etc ,etc, and we forget to say what we want, what we hope, what we need. If you find 'her', tell 'her' those things. People and circumstances change, but our basic wants and needs about being loved don't. My husband happens to need a lot of love and attention and guess what? So does my 3 yr old -i don't have the energy to take care of them both. That's were I struggle. I thought he just liked me a lot when we were dating and he called every day, but that is actually him- he is a bit needy and he needs to be loved like that. I need space so you can see where we have to get this together. Those expectations should have been discussed before marriage. Don't make that same whoops.
i agree with you to make fun of what you can- that is one area that has changed significantly between us. I have bad days because of my illness but there isn't one day that goes by that I'm not joking around. Sometimes it's borderline smart ass, but whatever.Thanks for dropping by again.
Mysti~ I think some people are more physically sexual than others and not just desire level. I am fine pleasing myself, I have normal desire levels too, but I always say I can't massage myself so that's what I enjoy my husband to do. What I miss and need to really want sex, is flirtations, banter, a desire before sex for each other, a little dancing or drinking. My husband simply puts down the TV remote and is instantly in the mood. Uh, not for me. I am a woman and I need the other stuff. Marriage seems to make men think their quest is over and now roll over and 'do it'. I don't want to do it just to do or make the weekly quota. You seem to be happy and fulfilled other than the sex thing. And yes, it could be worse.
wychic~ I read your comment to Mysti- my God, you are exhausting me just talking about all that you do. But I am right there on your husband's side of things- about the kids draining him. I am a stay-at-home mom and work part-time at home. If I wear something nice, somehow my daughter spills on it or chasing after the dog, I rip something. Anyway, I wish I had other outlets like I used to go dancing, go to the gym, etc but now I am so exhausted from my daughter all day and trying to get work done at night that I have nothing left for anything else. Having a chronic illness of course doesn't help, but otherwise I desire sleep and peace more than sex. Also, with my daughter glued to my hip all day the last thing I want is my husband all over me when he gets home.
Raven~ for me, it's not that my husband doesn't desire me- he does more than I desire him. He used to do a lot of cool things and now he goes to work and watches TV- boring so I really don't view him as desirable when I see him with the same routine everyday.
I read in cheating studies that men do not care so much about what the sex was like just as long as they were getting it often and a certain number of times. That is their main compaint. I'm sure what you're doing is a good way to keep him interested, but even that can't last forever unless their are 60 and 70 yr olds in porn. Tricks will only work so long. I actually want to desire my husband and I have to work on that.
"Marriage seems to make men think their quest is over and now roll over and 'do it'." This bit made me giggle -- yes, I know the not wanting it side too, except that was with my first husband. He would literally make googly eyes at me when I crawled into bed, then roll over on his back and say, "I'm ready!" Oh yeah, super sexy :P.
I think my husband may be in about the same place you are -- there has to be something there to want! I'm getting past a lot of my self-esteem issues, but I am well aware that I run around in the same style of jeans and T-shirt all the time, or scrubs while I'm working at home (which is most of the time), and my hair is almost always up in a bun. We don't really get away from the house, he can't really dance anymore because of his knees, so there's really no novelty. In fact, this past weekend we did get out of the house, to a country concert -- second time out since baby was born -- and I mentioned that the people swing dancing on the floor below were doing the kind of dancing I know how to do. He's more of a ballroom kind of guy, which I know the steps for but can't keep my feet off of his. Yep, adding in novelty has been added to my list of stuff to work on -- he still get variety in conversation, but that's about it :P.
Ok izettl I've got it. Listen to this - the first paragraph is the truth, followed by the second (in the above post, that is) which is a self-defense device lol, then followed by a reasoning that sounds like there isn't another choice! Fun, izettl, FUN!!! Spontaneous! No thinking! Just do it like Nike :)
-johnathan-
wychic~ yes the novelty wears off after a while on many things, and that I guess is the trick to get that back or even a hint of it. At first, you haven't seen all a man's "moves", but after years of marriage, you've seen them all. I desire "it" (sex), but I miss it in the days when it was a novelty, when it was the star attraction in a relationship. You mention you don't get out much since the baby- wow, can I agree to that!!!
Jonathan~ i used to be creative in all areas, but honestly life does get a little more serious at some point- you plan a night out and hte child comes down with fever and cold. There is always something that comes up when you have kids. Also, if I chose not to be married, being a single mom isn't what I would call FUN either. There are other choices- none of them fun though. Spontaneous also leaves the building with kids- like I said you can just go do something and BAM something ruins those plans when you have a child. It's a big ordeal just to get out of the house with kids. A simple trip to the grocery store or whatever you do is at least twice as long with a small child. I think raising small children is difficult and this effects relationships for sure- I honestly don't know how they make it past this stage- some do some don't I guess. My point is that I look at this as hopefully a stage and not a lasting thing. Life is a roller coaster afterall- ups and downs, right?
I guess. I never really wanted to have kids, but I cannot anyway, which is sorta good in a way. I think that even if you have kids there are things like late-night movies for couples, bags of sour cream + onion chips, and also macaroni necklaces in the daytime. I hope I am inspiring you...HAVE FUN izettl!!! I'm giving you the single man's perspective, and I have one neice and a nephew, so I sorta get it. It is hard- I call it "The only job that is full-time w/ no benefits and no pay, where you work for free and get no paid days off or vacation time!" lol-
-johnathan-
you're a cool chick, so I hope I've helped...kinda... :)
and it's spelled 'Jo-h-nathan' lol, not 'Jo-n-athan...' but it's cool lol :)
I perfectly agree, Johnathan, that the little things can be made fun. But not too much fun- that kind of chips and eating like that, we'd be 400 lbs. lol.
It is nice to be able to see your perspective because it so much resembles mine when I was single. I have to think about what I wanted out of life before I got married and realize life is short- that used to be my motto all the time. but being a mommy, the days are long and the nights are longer ;))
It doesn't help my husband and I have different schedules, I'm a night owl and he's way early to bed so it feels we're always in a different time zone.
Sorry about the spelling- habit, my dad's name is Jonathan.
it's cool izettl- I am giving u permission to call me whatever u like lol- I enjoy your being on HubPages because it's writers like you that keep my interest. Thanks again izettl for the inspiration...
-johnathan-
likewise and thank you for the inspiration. Your passion in your writing is what I need to get back to with my fiction writing. ahhh creative expression, nothing like it!
I agree!!!
Nice hub. It's difficult wanting to be close, but your partner would rather not. Fascinating how can go from absolutely loving to have sex anytime, anyplace, anywhere, to seeing it as a chore.
trusouldj~ most of the time women start viewing it as a chore when there is too much on their plate with other things. The poor woman needs some free time or time for herself. With somen, it's usually mental- we have sex with our brains so stimulate that again!!
I think life is above all sex and lust.
yes that puts it into perspective.
this was an informative read - funny i never saw this hub before... well done my friend.
Every relationship has it's own view on this and each person in every relationship will have their individual views... you did amazing at exploring this topic and with the comments the nail was hit with the hammer.
Bang on! Good hub
Neil~ this is one of my earliest hubs and it was a hard topic to tackle. I had just overcome some things in my marriage and realized these highs and lows occur throughout marriages and for various reasons. The communication thing is number one. Couples just let issues go on for so long until its become a bigger problem and usually effects the sex life when many times it's not even baout the sex iteself- lol. THanks for reading.
Great hub! I totally agreed. Although I've never been married, from examining friends and other people's marriages I saw similar things
Thank you for taking the time to write it and share it. :) 2 Thumbs Up
Married 45 years last week, you would think thats an accomplishment buts it been a nightmare. We have had sex once and that was our wedding night. When the I dos and our wedding night were over he moved all his things down stairs, and thats where he has lived all these years. He worked nights all his life to be away from me. We went no where together he cancelled our honey moon all of his vacations, and made sure his weekend were not the same as mine. He goes no where he just shuts himself down stairs, no phone, computer, no TV that works and he sold his car.
Amy~ wow I really wish you would find your way out of that marriage- that's not even a marriage. Why has he stayed? Why have you stayed?
Twave~ thanks for stopping by.
izetti:
You had askedwhy has he stayed well he just refuses to leave and I stay because were retired now and has a good pension plan and med benefits. We don't have alot of money just enough. If either of us left we would be living in a cardboard bow under some underpass. So its really horrible that my life has turned out like it has, but some day it will be all over.
Amy~ It's easy to get lives entagled with each other and be dependant on each other finanfically, etc. I've started at square one after leaving somebody who I was financially dependant on- I had to get rid of my new car, new apartment, my dog even. But I made it work. Always have a plan B when married. http://izettl.hubpages.com/hub/To-Plan-B-or-Not-to If you are truly stuck make the most of it. partners can be intimate but not have sex and you can find hobbies to pass time. There is no reason tobe miserable. Like you said it's better than living in a cardboard box because some people do.
I am going on a month without sex, the longest in my 5 years marriage. Before we were doing it once a week and that wasn't even enough. I tried talking about it with the wife but was told it was because I was not doing enough around the house, so I stated doing more than i usually to around the house I was told that all i cared about was sex.
I am binning to think there is something else going on and it's driving me crazy not knowing what is really going to her mind. One thing that came to my mind is that she's no attracted to me anymore.
What do you guys think?
poisson~ it could be any number of things...honestly. And the reasons can change often. I know most women are just plain tired and exhausted and yes we sometimes suffer from losing attraction to our partners.
You must find other things to do with her and be her friend again... so that she'll talk to you about anything and open up. Find other activities to do together without the pressure of sex. As a woman it can feel like out partners only do stuff for sex and that's a turn off. Then we feel guilty about not having sex with you and it turns into a cycle of he's not happy and she's not happy. Only your parnter can let you know what's going on...so b that friend to her.
Be her friend for a moment... sex is wonderful but so is loving your best friend... be her everything and don't expect anything in return... do you love her for the love or for the sex... there is a huge difference in a womans mind... I say mind... men think with their brains... women with their minds... it's all connected for her... so build it again if you have to... for you and most men it is in compartments... for her and most all women, your life with her is a continuous thread... like a very thin wire... it's all connected for her... go back and see if there is a kremp in the wire... you have some time on your hands so trace it... you'll find where you lost her, repair that first then slowly go back down the wire to the present, walking every step of the way... by the time you get back, she see that you care and she'll be ready for you again... remember she is always tired, take her away if you can and expect nothing... be friends for a while... I am forty two years in with my love... so somethings only come from experience... do not give up....
Jeanine~ the key words are doing something and not expecting anything back- its so easy to keep track...a point system. lol.
and be friends...for crying out loud people!
So true... at my age... although it is important to have a lover... it's not nearly as important as having a friend...lovers are for a season... Friends are forever...
bhowell 3 years ago
Izetti, great hub. I just posted "One Penis Ago...."A Wife's Lament". Sometimes marriages with great sex also "peter" out, (no pun intended) due to illness such as Diabetes. When we take the vow "for better or worse, in sickness and in health" we never actually think those things will happen to us but they do! Keep up the great writing!!!