Marriage Indifference...'I Love You But I Don't like You'
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"Love cannot endure indifference. It needs to be wanted. Like a lamp, it needs to be fed out of the oil of another's heart, or it's flame burns low". Henry Ward Beecher
Some people who end marriages just outright hate the other person, but other marriages end even when the spouses can agree that they love each other, and always will, but just drifted apart and did not find joy around one another anymore. I am not one of those people who believe love is enough or love conquers all. I believe it works in some of the greatest novels ever written and best movies ever seen, but not in the real world. That's where it gets ugly.
Ask yourself, have you been married for a while and find yourself hanging in there because you love your spouse, but otherwise they simply dull your senses? Not sure if you want to be 80 sitting in a rocking chair next to a person you love but don't like? I'm going to go ahead and expose the brutal truth about where many marriages end up. You're living with someone you don't like. It doesn't happen overnight and one of the most troubling aspect of this, is it takes years to get to this point and sometimes there is no returning.
I know they end up here because there's no shortage of wealthy marriage counselors and self-help love gurus. I also know they end up here because I've experienced this in my own marriage.
You may know you're at this point if:
- 'date night' is a chore. Any time together is boring or chore-like
- the TV is more interesting than your spouse
- your spouse just retired and you don't like them around so much
- your spouse has become an acquaintance or roommate passing by each other like ships at sea
- passion is lacking
- if your relationship feels like work, or if you'd rather be at work
- you are carrying on with your life with or without your spouse, and doing your own thing
I could list a thousand signs, but you know who you are.
Since when did marriage become a chore?
Let me break down the path to which you may have gone down. You love your spouse, you have for quite a while, but you've drifted and nothing about the person sitting next you excites you enough to even attempt a conversation. You know them too well or you don't know them at all anymore. You may even make efforts to improve your marriage. It's your moral duty because a counselor or some book gave you advice and homework to do with your spouse.
These suggestions like 'date night' reek of chores Ever heard of 'date night' or 'dating your spouse'? I never heard these terms before having a child and now I never hear the end of it. You mean I have to date my husband again? There's just as many rules to dating your spouse as there were when you dated before marriage; can't talk about kids or bills. It's forced and unnatural. When you have kids together, there is rarely time to have interests outside of family life. So what do you talk about?
Your credit card has interest, but you don't
There is no possible way to know for sure if you will be interested in the person you marry for the rest of your life. I've had my husband tell me 'You already know everything about me, what do you want me to say?' I admit it's laughable now that I look back on it, but it's something we've had to work on; getting interesting and being interested.
It's a profound issue that creeps up among couples- lack of interest in each other, and sometimes one or both of them just have a lack of interests...period. Marriage is about sharing and if you have nothing to share or don't care about what the other person wants to share, there is no reason to be around each other and so the drifting begins.
People deal with drifting and eventual indifference differently. Some go to their own living spaces and avoid their spouse. Some create arguments and fights to feel ANY connection. Some immerse themselves in work or being a parent that purposefully takes up a lot of their time- commonly known as avoidance. In other words, in none of these scenarios do any of these people actually deal with the issue at hand, meaning despair and/or divorce is likely.
How do you become interesting?
Having passion or a deep interest in something is part of the equation, but the other is knowing how to share that with your spouse. You could do wondrous things like bungee jumping off Mount Everest, but if you don't tell your spouse about it, they won't find you interesting. There are people who do things but don't talk about them and this is great if you plan on being alone.
It's a little bit of story telling and communication that does the trick. This usually doesn't come real hard for people who enjoy something a lot and could talk about it all day (but please don't talk about it all day, that can be a drag too). Story telling, however, considers the audience. You ask yourself, 'How do I present this in a way that interests who I am talking to'.
I was a waitress for many years and along that path I met a lot of people. The ones I found most interesting were not those that had grand things to brag about, but rather those who were the most passionate about their interests and sharing them. I don't care if someone was talking about laying concrete, if they were especially interested in it, I also found it truly interesting as well.
How do you become interested?
Rarely do both couples get on the same page at the same time. This is why indifference sets in; one person tries when the other doesn't. It feels like you're on a broken roller coaster- a roller coaster should be a fun ride, but the fact that it's broken makes it a lot less enjoyable.
This whole process has to be reciprocated- you share, they share, you have interests, they have interests. People who don't have their own interests outside of the marriage are not interesting, therefore nobody will be interested in them. Always encourage your spouse to have other interests, therefore you can become interested in them.
Looking for love
When we set out on our journey for love, even our opposite will be attractive to us because there is much to learn about someone not like us. However, I question the long-term relationship between opposites. I question what we deem important in another person to share our life with. You love this person, of course, but do you like them?
Perhaps opposites do attract as long they are both interested and interesting. I know my husband and I somehow got together and ask anybody, we're quite opposite. He's black and white and I'm grey-ish. He's interested in history and I failed that class. But I've tried to get re-schooled in that area and often ask him about history, even watched a few shows on the history channel (don't tell anybody). Opposite is interesting at first, but can be difficult later in life when you try to find common interests to share or you can make the best of it and learn new things from each other all the time.
In other words, there is no recipe for the perfect mate. When we're searching, I don't believe there is anything right or wrong (other than some obvious things). I know happy couples married all their life, only knowing their spouse for a few months before getting hitched. It doesn't matter how you fall in love, but what you do with it after marriage- that's what counts.
At least 50% of Americans will fail
Marriage is a 50/50 gamble. I believe American society has it's faults that directly contribute to failed marriages. The American dream drives us forward while everything else gets left in the dust. Simple exploration is replaced by material accumulation. Reveling in one another's spirit is replaced by measurements defined by success. We lose interest in each other, so we work toward getting the American dream because successful marriages are elusive. How does it go? Get a career, get married, get a house, have kids, and die? No thanks, not for me. As a country, we need to start rituals that encouragesand cultivate our love toward each other. Everything else has become so much more interesting than the person we share a bed with every night.
I remember loving a particular song when I was younger- at such an early age I was determined that if I loved, this would be how it was. Maybe some of you know the cheesy song by Kenny Loggins (and other artists), "Danny's Song"...even though we ain't got money I'm so in love with you honey. Yes, this is a romantic ideal, but the idea behind it is simple. Our country is being tested whether relationships can weather rough economic times, whether we can be interested in our spouses without spending a bunch of money to have fun. Regrettably, many marriages aren't surviving this test. Love is not enough, you must like a person to get through the tough times. Let this be a wake-up call.
Turn it up!
Suggested Reading
- Marriage Contracts, Ultimatums, and Divorce
- Make-up Sex and Other Relationship Myths
Men are visual and lucky for women (sarcasm), their visual cues are constantly reaffirmed and enhanced by the wonderful world of 200+ channels on cable TV. At least 100 of these channels include a movie or sitcom at any given time, displaying the eas - Is Love or Lust More Powerful?
Not one thing influences people more than this topic in general. Love and lust literally influence every move we make and every breath we take- where we live, if we marry, if we have kids, how long we live, where we work, how much money we make, how
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Hope you didn't read the messed up version- I just had to make a bunch of corrections- oops! Just stuff I've been thinking of lately.
well done, as usual! absolutely loved it! truth in every line, hope the whole world reads it.
thanks for such a wonderful comment stclairjack. I've been thinking of this stuff for a while but never really could put it into words so I guess now is the time. I am glad you read it.
i was being uncharcteristicly sincere,... most of us dont have a clue how we got to the moment on the couch when we look over and think to ourselves,.."who in hell is that and how did i wind up here?"... theres a real path to that moment, we just seem to travel it without thinking about it.
my maridge of 14 years collapsed around me even as i realized it,... and i see nugets of truth about me and us here,.. painfull but true,...
you've done very well here,... very well.
I'm just thinking. Lets just say for instance somebody answers yes to all those questions. Maybe it's hard to be that honest with yourself, but you struggle throught it. Then comes the REALLY difficult question. At this point, how important is it? I've got to be honest, I don't lose much sleep over it anymore. That's terrible, but If I'm not honest, I'm nothing. The seperate lives thing has become a thing of joy to be clear. It's actually the thing that keeps us in business I think. There's a special situation that you know about Laura, but I won't air the dirty laundry here. I love her and she loves me, but at this point, it's just FBR I'm afraid .. or at least as far as becoming that rosey relationship that dreams are made of. I'll sum it up; Not bad enough to split up, not good enough to stay together. This will probably get me some hate mail, but shoot, why comment if you're going to be phony?
I voted up,useful,and awesome. I'ts really better than that, but that's all we have ti choose from.
jim
Very excellent hub on family life. your's guidelines are on the basis of realities. thanks for sharing.
Thanks again Stclair. It's a mystery as to how we get to that point, perhaps it's so gradual, perhaps we get comfortable and Jimwithnopants mentioned above- too good to leave, too bad to stay. It's a big part of how marriages end after many years, like yours of 14. I think it's gradual. How much does one expect of marriage anyway? If you expect the good to great then mediocre isn't going to cut it. But if you have low expectations of marriage then you'll probably stick in there until someone makes the move to end it, until someone just can't bear it anymore. I've been married 6 years and I guess I was surprised to realize how quick this set in. We love, we exist, but now we have to struggle to get more than that. Because there should be more than that.
Thanks ejazahmed~ thanks for the read and I hope it brought some reality to people.
You write so well! Marriage is anachronism, a legacy from feudal and tribal times, because nowadays with the divorce rate SO high, it came down simply to co-living. But our legal system is still barbaric and very slow to accept the facts. The fact that you have a certificate won't make you love your partner more or make your union stronger. In fact due to the fear of divorce process, a lot of people hang on there way too long, suffering and missing opportunities of their life.
Good tips. Voted up!
Jim~ I'm a little mad right now because I had a long comment written out to you when my laptop completely shut off. I thought it was plugged in but it wasn't so battery/user malfunction.
Anyway, let me try to recall some of it. I made some similarities between us about being only children and not wanting to share. I know you and I have a lot of interests so it's not like we'd have a lack of what to say to our spouses, but maybe it's this way for you, I like having my world, my interests completely away from my husband. This is my thing and it could be an independent thing too,but I like having some things all to myself.
I like that you are so honest. In fact, I had to force myself to be more honest on this hub than I would have liked. For some reason, I believe I give my all to everything I choose to do- parent, write, business, etc, but I feel ashamed that I don't make that effort in my marriage. I'm not sure why don't have the same expectations there. Where you are comfortable in our marriage and your situation, I am not comfortale accepting co-existance. However, I think the difference is men don't have the same hopes and dreams for what marriage will be like that women have.This might mean a little more to a woman than to a man- I don't know. We'll see if anyone comments on that. Some men, like you, are very happy with a partnership, an arrangement. You say the separate lives thing has become a joy and you know, I don't know what to say to that. I can't be OK with that and maybe that is our age difference. You are a bit older and figure that aspect of your life is done- it is what it is right now.
So I'll ask you this. When you are 80+ and your energy, stamina, mental dexterity are leaving the building- so to speak, who do you want to be stuck with sitting next to in that rocking chair? I certainly don't want to be the bitter hag next to my husband, the old bastard.
THere is a book I read called "too good to leave, too bad to stay". It was a great book and I think sums up a lot of marriages.
moncrieff~ right off the bat, thanks for that compliment about my writing. Co-living is exactly what many marriages have turned into. Divorce proceedings can get so ugly people just stay in a dead end marriage.You made a wonderful correlation between those two things. So true. I hate to say it but the legal system is messed up on a lot of things. Thanks for stopping by and for the vote up.
Jim~ another thing I wanted to let you in on was that this hub was born from that conversation we had that day about your situation. I knew I'd write a hub from it, I just didn't know it would be this one- but some of you is in this hub too.
Wow Laura, you really nailed it with this one. I suspect this applies to at least 50% of the marriages in this country. Very few species of animals mate for life, most are "hit and run" relationships for no other reason than to keep the species populated. Perhaps man was designed to operate in this fashion rather than the "till death do we part" plan that was adopted. The other part of the plan is fuel for another hub, but pertains to "only the strong survive". There is no organized welfare system in the animal kingdom.
I have been married for almost 48 years. During most of my working career I had jobs requiring extensive travel, so I was a weekend husband. Leave on Monday morning and get home late on Friday night. So, in essence, I led a double life. When I retired and found myself at home 24/7, I discovered how little my wife and I really had in common. Our interests are completely different, so we lead separate lives together.
Until I read this hub and discovered it was not just me who felt this way, I was actually feeling guilty. I have tried to find some common ground where we could spend time together and actually enjoy it, but so far no such luck. Now that I know there are many others who share a similar situation, I can live with this. In some ways I envy those couples who appear to have a "joined at the hip" relationship, but in other ways I like having my own time and space.
This was a truly excellent hub, and I think you did the world, at least me, a great service by writing it. I would bet many of your loyal readers are shedding some guilt feelings today.
Laura,
Both of us have somewhat lower expectations than most folks I'd imagine. The only good marriages we've seen are on TV. Yeah, the difference in age probably DOES have something to do with things. Keep in mind that even though I'm older than you, I'm very imature, I'm a Sagitarius, I'm stll faster than a speeding bullet, can leap tall buildings and am more powerful than a tornado. When I'm 80, I'll still be able to jump over a house I imagine. When the time comes I can't clear a fence, I'd bet that's the time they'll find me with the old blank stare.
You know, I still do some Open Mic's and even a Karaoke here and there. Apparently I still have my MoJo, but who knows that will last. Starting a new relationship would require a whole new training program for both parties. So much work to get the same results most likely. I'm a positive thinker in everything but this.
Here's the perfect marriage for me. Girl decides when she wants to go with me on my adventures. She knows better than to wait for me to ask, because she knows how independant and self serving I am. She wouldn't have me any other way. She knows that I'm super happy to have her with me, because I love her. How does she know? Because I told her, that's how. It IS my responsibility to remind her of this from time to time. I'm just a dumb ass, and forget to take other people's feelings into consideration. I need her help to remember things that most people remember naturally, and she's loves helping me in this area. Seperate bedrooms and bathrooms. We alternate bedrooms for sex, and the visiting partner has the option of staying over. My girl is NEVER allowed in my bathroom. I'm a very tidy guy. Sharing my intrest in music and politics would be nice, but not a deal breaker. She'd lose ALL respect for me if I shared in any of her interest. The first one to get fat leaves with the clothes on their back, no questions asked. Ummm .. there's more but this is an outline .. What say you Sis :/
jim
nice hub, you are great writer!
Mr Poolman~ It was great meeting you on the phone the other day. I love what you said in your comment about how the animal kingdom doesn't have an organized welfare system- so true. I've thought that about many things- how we differ from the animal kingdom. We're supposed to be different- evolved of course, but we're not as far off instinctually and biologically as we'd like to admit.
I am the same way- we have to struggle to find common ground. The longest relationship I had before my husband was a truck driver and I kind of liked the fact he was gone a few days a week. So that should have told me something. Both my husband and I are realizing we need to find some common ground or this could be a really looooong and boring marriage. It's hard to admit that when I hear other couples doing everything together. THanks for the comment Mike.
Healthp~ thanks for stopping by!
Jim~ I heard that Sagitarius are not cut out for marriage. I'm probably older physically than you- lol. It's hard to imagine you in older form now, but you it will likely happen someday (not any time soon), but you get the point...eventually.
Your perfect marriage is interesting- I can relate to a lot of it. Although I don't want someone to come along with me somewhere unless I ask. THe thing between my husband and me is he wants to be next to me 24/7, but not really interacting, just physically next to each other. His mom used to say he had a security blanket he never would get rid of and I think I've took it's place. He doesn't talk to me much nor interact with me, but wants to just be around me. It's strange to me- not for others I'm sure, but for me it's not natural. I need physical space to appreciate someone. I need someone to be interested in me to feel loved. I went on a lot of dates in my time and the only guys who survived were the ones that showed interest in my brain, my thoughts, my interests. Dating my husband, well he was so persistent. He was a good listener, still is, but nothing much to contribute to the conversation. Back to your perfect marriage, my favorite aspect is the separate bedrooms and bathrooms. I loved this part about dating when you had to decide whose house to go over to and having separate rooms is like that- it's kind of cool! My husband and I do that during the week because he gets up so damn early, but he hates it- I love it.
I dunno. To me my daughter Jamie has the perfect marriage. My daughter is very much like me. She's married to a guy who I've been crazy about from day one. Family is number one with him. He's extremely intelligent, and idolizes me oddly enough. The only kink is that he's goofy with a capitol G. He actually makes goofy look kind of cool though. Him and Jamie are very much like brother and sister. They have a unique bond. They share each other's intrests like children. If one finds a pretty rock, the other can't wait to see. They don't fight over how to decorate their house, or the bills, and their is no jealousy. I have actually gotten a phone call from Julius (my son in-law) crying because my daughter took the red tooth brush and won't give it back. They almost never fight, and when they do, it's about stuff like this. They are fascinating to watch, and they're doing a fantastic job of raising the kids. I can safely say there is never a dull moment in that house, and they'll be together till they get old and die.
I would have loved to marry someone like my daughter, or my cybersister. (That sounds sick I know but you know what I mean.) God's got a plan, and I'll figure it out when the time is right I guess. If I had a great marriage, I'd be obsessed with it, and not trying to change the game in Washington, so maybe everything DOES have a reason. Maybe that's what's happening with you. You're very talented. Perhaps He can't afford you being in a marriage that captures all your attention. I dunno Sis. Like I've said, "I'm just the piano player in a whore house."
jim
Jim~ that sounds like an awesome bond between Jamie and her husband- I'm a little jealous.
I also thought the same thing about you being in a marriage that, if you were joined at the hip, you wouldn't be able to be invested in this political thing you've got going on. This is important as well. That's a tough one to figure out.
I believe that if two people are interested in making a go at marriage they can bring back the romance and the excitement. It's easy to throw in the towel but it's so much smarter to try and make something work. Light some candles, dim the lights and talk, talk, talk. Don't do this once in a while, do it every single night. Dinner should be a romantic shared experience that each person looks forward to. It works, just try.
IZ, I'm married for almost 34 years, so I don't have much experience with this. Things are actually very simple.
1- You have to marry the right person for the right reasons.
2- Men should realize that they are going to lose 95% of the arguments. These really aren't important, give in guys. Doing that the right way helps you "get in." That's what you want anyway. The woman will love to hear you say, I'm sorry. You don't really have to mean it, but you "get it."
3- The 5% you realy want, fight hard for. If you win 2 or 3 of 5, all will be fine.
4- Don't be so quick to end it.
So where do you have problems IZ, I won't tell anyone. H
breakfastpop~ I agree, but easier said than done- sometimes that can feel like a chore and what do couples do when all the effort just feels like work? Perhaps making a habit of all the romantic and talking stuff is good- make it a habit until it works and doesn't feel like work anymore. thanks for stopping by. Always a pleasure.
Harvey~ good God man- that is brilliant stuff...really. My problem is my husband fights real hard for the 95% of things. Every little thing is an important win for him. Kind of makes interactions seem futile. He wants to be right and have sex- lol. You can't have both mister! I'm too stubborn to end things- I think everything has a solution, even the national debt crisis. Thanks for the input Harvey- if you don't have a hub about marriage, then you should. You know your sh*t.
Pretty good hub. Even though I'm not married, I'll put some of the tips here in my relationship especially my close relationships.
Hi! Izettl, you did a wonderful job here. :-)
Hello there~ haven't seen you in a while but I'm glad you stopped by to read this. A lot of truth in this hub so I hope you get something from it and consider it if/when you get married. Hope you have a great day!
Thanks, Isetti. You obviously started a discussion of great interest. I enjoyed what you said and the many comments. I guess there is nothing natural about marriage. It does take continual input of excitement and interest to keep one going well. Probably more important to be interested in your partner than to try to be interesting. The odd thing is that no matter how neurotic we are, we tend to come out of it long enough to fall in love, then gradually sink back unless we get some great inspiration. I know Churches of Scientology have Life Improvement Courses on marriage and other life topics. I found a few new angles in these. Put the juice back for my husband and me! We like each other fine, we laugh a lot, and we still lead fairly separate lives.
IZ, It really is simple. Show your hubby my comment, and tell him following it will get him wanting you to slow down.
Any good ideas for a title that will attract ladies, guys won't read it as much. Their wives will have to show it to them. I'll start it, and will wait for a title. H
Interesting hub and it is probably true for at least 50% of the people but I do know several people that have been married for a long time and still happy.
Beautiful! If we ask many couples that 'are you happy in these long years of your married life?'
Many of them don't answer instantly a yes!!!
triciajean~ that sounds ideal between your husband and you. I think I have garnered enough interests myself so I am working on getting more interested in my husband- as a person day to day and the deeper stuff. He doesn't readily share anything so it takes me prying it out of him- asking a lot of questions. It's laughable, in spite of our neuroticism, we are able to fall in love. Marriage is a lot of selfless acts amidst a selfish society. THanks for your input.
Pamela99~ I've always been fascinated by the happy and long marriages- for many, they have no recipe for success. Not sure if it comes easy to them or if they are always working on it. When I was a waitress, I would ask the much older married folks who were regulars and came in so happy to be together, how they do it. Most would answer, they simply adore each other, the get joy from each other, etc.
vydyulashashi~ thanks so much for stopping by to read. Many marriages are lacking enough of something to say they are truly happy- I think you're absolutely right.
Harv~ I told my husband about what you had said and he said 'you're right'. I'm not sure if he was being sarcastic in the moment though- like you're right honey I'll agree with what you say, but I won't do it. Hey, at least he didn't pick a fight about it- lol.
As for a title on your hub...I'm stumped, but it will probably come to me today so give me a chance to think on it. I'll get back to you.
IZ, The more he gets, the more he'll agree. But you have to remind him, only occassionally. H
From what I understand (and from statistics I've seen), one of the most misleading things about that 50/50 divorce rate is that it is over-simplified. A couple of groups of people seem to weigh heavily into that statistic, and those groups are people for whom a first marriage was between the ages of 20 and 25, and to a lesser extent, those who get married for the first time between 25 and 29. Divorces in second marriages weigh in quite a bit (shouldn't be a surprise, because a lot of people weren't marriage material first time around; and a second marriage has to have quite the solid foundation if it's going to withstand some of the complications that can be associated with second marriages). Third marriages weigh heavily into that statistic (again, that shouldn't be a surprise). Besides the not-marriage/relationship-material factor, there's the keep-attracting-the-wrong-kind-of-person factor.
People in their 20's are still in a "high-development" stage as far as "solidifying" themselves as mature, grown-up, individuals and with their own place/purpose in this world. I think that's why so many people simply grow apart.
A very interesting hub and I think many people ask the same questions! I have been there several times myself:) In the search for that everlasting passion and continued interest I have swapped both homes and spouse. Or let me clarify, at that time I did not know what I was searching for! It was more a feeling of; There must be something more than this? Is this it? Do, I want to spend the rest of my life with this man? Afterwards I can say that it was the right thing to do, to end that relationship. Even though it wasn't bad at all. But it was boring and that was something I couldn’t endure in a relationship and I felt he didn’t really saw me. I know I would have been his nightmare if I had stayed on:))
In my second marriage it took more than twenty years before the feeling of boredom came back. Before that we where alternating between mad love and hate and struggle to get a family life going including his children and our children, ex spouses and all. But when the first signs of boredom came I did know that I was searching for something impossible that no one else could give me. No one can take away my restlessness and I must learn to live with it. My husband and I can talk about it since he is as restless as I am and with a broken marriage behind him. Maybe that is the trick, to choose someone like your self? Or realise that we hurt our children too much in our search for passion!
Somehow some of us are constantly searching for something, and personally I know that I will probably never be content. But now I have learned to focus that restless side of me on other things than to see problems in my relationships. Because there are problems in every marriage! Why put so much work into something that probably would end almost the same? I can honestly say that I don’t want to go through all that again!
I think it is a gift to have that kind of drive that forces us to constantly move forward. Imagine where humanity would have been if everyone was content with what they had! It is a human feature to always press forward.
To sum it up; I don’t loose my breath when I see him now days and I don’t agree on all his views, but I still love him and I know why I married him 25 years ago:)) I think it is natural that some of that mad love transfers on to a more sensitive love that involves friendship and respect for the other part. If that means you have different interests that’s ok, as long as you have some interests in common also. Every couple must find a way to adjust to another kind of relation. And I can recommend to have separate bedroom, I only wish we did it ages ago!
Tina
Sis,
Here's a link to one of my followers' hubs. She's a good writer, but needs to get some hits and followers. This hub's on weddings, and goes perfectly along side this hub topic wise. Check her out. I'm giving her a link to you also. http://hubpages.com/hub/Bridezilla-Maniacs
jim
Izettl, I'll do just that.
Yeah! I went out for a couple of months. You can read why I did that on this hub of mine http://hubpages.com/hub/Hubpages-Celebrates-With-R
It's really been a long time but I'll be on Hubpages full scale from next weekend :-)
Hope to see more of you, good friend.
Izettl, you inspired me to think not only about relationships but about personality and the question whether humans are basically good. So I wrote a separate hub about it, Uh, What's Wrong With You? and decided "nothing but worry."
Laughter is the passion of love.... we are in a learning curve in America... women are coming into their new position of prominence... no longer does she cower to the mans authority simply because he is a man... very upsetting for the guys, but a cool place for the girls... the simple word"why" is being applied all over America and men are scared... lol... gone be different this time around...lol
Awesome and irteresting! Thanks - yes great writing too btw!!
Makes me more grateful and surprised I'm still very happily married - we dated for like 7 years then got married 12 years ago:) dating for longer periods of time can be really beneficial.
generally as the couple ages it becomes the opposite... "I like you but I don't love you"... and that's a very hard thing to admit just as Jim said... but if you can look at it, it's scary but overcomeable...lol..lol. I'm sure that's not a word...lol...there are physical maladies that happen... it's no ones' fault, say if they get a disease like cancer or rumatoid A...there's no way it's her fault so your not going to fight over it after you take a real look at it... then that causes emotional stress, for the both of you, so you birth new kinks without anyone being at fault... those are the times you build different things, looking for a distant path that will lead you back to the norm or at least what it was...lol... after a sustained search for years on end one comes to the realization that there are only a few paths that may lead back because you have traveled all the others in search of the way...lol.. finally if one practices all the things that one must do to honestly not abuse ones partner, one learns a whole new set of possibilities of falling into another part of love.... so I guess the lesson is... if there is one... love has so many different doors, that we should never give up pursuing love from one another... and yes we found another door...
I hear you Harvey- we have yet to strike some sort of balance.
Lisa HW~ I heard the divorce rate among second marriages (even if only one of the partners has already been married)have a 75% divorce rate.You bring up a great point that some people aren't marriage material or aren't at least at certain ages. I'm going to throw my own statistic out there- I think 90% of women attract or are attracted to the wrong man for them. Thanks so much for stopping by.
Jim~ I checked out the link and a few of her hubs- I'm a fan!
thougtforce~ always a pleasure to be graced by your presence. I respect your thoughts. Your experiences remind me so much of some of mine. You made me think when you were talking about your second marriage that kids tend to postpone people from taking a look at whats going on in their marriage andjust how bad it may be. I can relate to you so much- I'll never quite be content. I would probably never leave my husaband because I know the same scenario would happen with a different guy- part of it is just me. Thanks for commenting and sharing.
RoyalMark~ I'll be checking out that hub and looking forward to seeing you more present on hubs again.
Triciajean~ couldn't agree more. What's wrong with us. I'm interested to read what you have to say about this.
Realhousewife~ I always wondered if it wuld be better to date longer or not. I was engaged to someone for 3 years and we dated for 5 but never got married- just got tired of each other-lol. i only dated my husband for 1 yr before marriage though. Some people say it matters how long , others don't. Thanks for stopping by.
Jeanine~ I've actually heard that women are the reason for a higher divorce rate, and I'm not really saying that like a bad thing. But they're gaining confidence, independence, and earn their own money so who would blame them for leaving some fool!
based on how my husband cared for me when I was at my worst with RA, I couldn't leave him- I'm loyal. You do something that nice for me and I'll never go away. i just want him to be happy too. That time really changed us and we were so much closer, and then we sort of fell back into the same complacent and indifferent roles. Our core values are right on target, but we desperately need to find interests together- somewhere in between World War II (his main interest) and psychology (my main interest). Hmmm... We just need to both retire soon because we both want to travel around in a big motor home. Although at our rate, we may be raising kids until we're 80- lol.
Excellent hub, Izetti! To be honest, I am sure marriage is forced and unnatural. Familiarity breeds contempt – a saying that has its origins in one of Aesop's fables – is unfortunately a fact. Love, needed to maintain a marriage until Death ends it, is hard-hard work. One eventually starts to hate the one you once loved just because s/he is the reason why too much work keep you from enjoying life in accordance with your personal needs and interests. Okay, this is selfish, but natural. I honestly think it is high time to invent a new way of securing the survival of the human race. (This is after all the purpose of marriage.)
We down play the significance of romance/sex in long-term relationships/marriages. We tell ourselves that companionship is more important than passion. We let things slide and the longer we let passion drift away the more difficutl it is to get it back. "It's easier to maintain a fire than it is to reignite a spark." It's our sexual desire for our mate that separates "romantic love" from (paternal love, sibling love, and friendship love). "Monogamy becomes boring when we become lazy." One man's opinion! :-)
Martie~ I had a friend on another hub write something about a 10 yr contract for marriages. Sort of like, in 10 years let's see how this is going and take it or leave it at that point without too many hassles. We go into marriage thinking it will be forever and many times it's not so what if we went into it not expecting forever? I wonder how that would change things. I certainly agree with you about it not being natural- it literally isn't, down to our biology. Thanks for stopping by.
Dashingscorpio~ I happen to agree with your opinion. So many things get added to the mix when people get marrie, namely children that exhaust parents and take away spontaneity. My marriage completely changed after having kids. I guess that's what I'm learning about not getting lazy about maintaining that spark.
Izetti... Go to the Czech republic... sigmund freud's home, plus there a mountain of WW II stuff there... that's a good start, then the river and a nice room over looking the market on the other side... then the spark continues...lol... I love Marties honesty, when she says... after all that's what marriage is for.... maybe that's not what it's for... it could be it's just what they told us it was supposed to be... generally one of us stands down shall we say, to the other, and those of us who do most of the work are generally the first to say, what... this is not what I signed on for... I want out...most of the discontent in marriage comes down to the pictures and the unrealistic expectations we bring with us... everyman in the world thinks that his wife is going to be waiting for him at the door, ready to worship him...lol..lol..lol...and some are still practicing...lol... and every woman on earth doesn't see any reason that her man, the one she picked, cannot read her mind and know exactly what she is thinking.... and if he misses.. damn... it means he must not love me....lol... we are all guilty... so then we choose sides... I choose me... well if you are gonna do that ... I choose me...lol.. what if we were simply meant to be friends and go out two by two, with respect for what each other does, then the playing field begins to level... women and men are in a learning curve right now in history... woman who has been working on, believing for and most of all deserves more respect, has suddenly realized the responsibilities of position comes a large dose of the mundane... man on the other hand has been trying his best to be more tender and loving, embracing the home in which she has explained to him ... is everything to her... as he begins to hold the child and help his wife around the house, gardening, cooking, cleaning, but most of all it's the holding the baby... the moments connecting with that kind of love, he is not expecting, so as he starts to compare the rat race that he has known all his life, he begins to change ever so slightly... he was just looking for more attention from her not looking to enjoy it... what is attractive to both genders is the new area of expertise... is realized and the two are but novices... for her she loves being strong... for him... he loves being softer... I think that's what marriage is supposed to be... I have been in love for 41 years and my love is good to me... and I in return always do my best... I love love... marriage I've never considered divorce, murder a couple of times but never divorce...lol...lol...lol...
Jeanine~ I'm sure both my husband and I have experienced the feeling of this not being what we signed up for- my feeling of that is more about the way my life changed after having a baby then arthritis.I was a working woman, independent, etc and suddenly whipped out of work, had a baby, then laid off during the recession with no luck in fidning a new job- first time since I was about 12 that I didn't have some sort of job. Knowing that many women would have killed to be in my position of staying at home with thei baby didn't make me feel better about not wanting to.
Let me get back to marrige though...so along with staying at home came expectations from my husband- like you said, waiting for him when he gets home from work with my apron on, etc...lol. Other stay at home moms I knew were baking bread all day and I was lucky to find the bread isle at the store. This is all new stuff to me. I worked more hours prior to this so he did most of the domestic stuff. I had to learn to cook- pretty pathetic, but I never really cooked before. I've had a lot of tough jobs (a waitress for many years) so I'm not afraid of hard work, but this stay at home wife and mother thing sucks the life out of me sometimes. I am working on embracing it, but my husband and I are the definition of a couple who got exactly what they didn't sign on for. My husband is much more serious that he used to be and he attributes that to working full time- which he never really did before I was laid off.We are both stubborn and committed so there is no giving up here, but I don't think either of us would have expected to be tested in marriage so soon- all this in 6 yrs.
A lot of what you are saying also is what I want to write mroe about in that new hub I'm finishing. JEANINE IS MY MUSE!! Thanks!
LOL... I understand... but hey the wife thing is good for something, if only to show you what you don't want to be doing.... I do believe women are better suited for organized work and men are better for not so organized work... men are creatively impaired so the mundane can really help their self confidence... women on the other hand are creative in thinking outside of the box that the men made for them... also they are not as mad all the time... you could call it... "I USE MY MUSE" ....lol...
Izettl, I wonder if you and your husband are suffering more from the cultural context of isolated living and salaried job than from each other. In other societies, home was where much of the work was done, together with others male and female. Working as a larger team to survive together can be more fun than doing it as a twosome.
Jeanine~ i couldn't agree more about work types for women and men- that definitely explains my husband and I to a tee! I'm creative, he's organized. I just wish he'd let me in on his organized brain. I think my role issue is because he literally only wants me to be housewife and mother- I would die if I didn't get to express my other sides. i barely get to on hubpages and that is sometimes a fight to do that as it takes away from my "motherly" duties. Well how's that for unloading-lol.
Triciajean~ i suspect there are many variables involved. We tag team everything. Just to get everything done, he'll watch the child while I cook dinner, then it's my turn to play with the child, then it's his turn while I do some of my part-time work at home. Since having a child there is less "us" time. I know most people don't know what I'm talking about when I say this, but you'd know if you had a child like ours- she is high maintenance- it's as much hard work as it is enjoyable. She is always moving, always talking, always on and alert and sensitive to everything around her. Like I said ,there are many variables involved. We dont have much of a team- my husband is not in touch with his family and I have my mom nearby but she has a lot of health issues.
100% agree you have to like them, problem is DATING seems to be non-existant you hook up a few times hey your going together so many people get married young not having had a chance to even KNOW what the heck they LIKE.. Even now at my age they are so hurried OR unavailable, I also agree with person up there on this statement = "men don't have the same hopes and dreams for what marriage will be like that women have." I think WHY so important to LIKE them before and accept them at face value they are simpler creatures I think than women in general sometimes,and NOPE not gonna change them so either, So accept and LIKE them enough before the wedding or don't do it.
Izetti.. I understand about the kids being on ten, my three boys, a singleton and twins were all in diapers at once... and they were all on ten... thank God we had help at first but neither side of the family would come for the first three years... I think it was out of fear really... and they were overwhelming..."because he literally only wants me to be housewife and mother"... that's is own stupidity and men can be stupid sometimes... I love what 4tune said "they are simple creatures" or just dumb asses sometimes...if he doesn't allow you do be creative... he loses half his life... tell him... I am right about this I'm sure... and I agree with 4tune, no one changes anyone... although, hormones or the lack there of changes us all...lol... for better or worse... the baby will begin to entertain her self as you let her... and she needs that also... to learn to do the solitude thing you are discussing...lol...
Excellent hub on family life. your guidelines are very helpful for both men and women.That is hundred percent true that due to the fear of divorce ratio a lot of people hang on there way too long, suffering and missing opportunities of their life.keep writing.
fashion~ thanks for stopping by. Divorce is ugly even when the couple agrees on things (which is never)- sad but true. It's not a reason to stay married but many do.
J~ i know i'm preaching to the choir about kids cause of your experience- twins, etc. Haley wears out our "help". Yes, I am my best if I can express myself creatively. Haley and I have a good routine during the day- she lets me get on the computer for at least an hour then we do some craft projects- we both love that. My husband focuses on the house and cleaning (used to bug me now it's laughable) because the house would be clean but he'd forget to feed Haley or some of the basics with her. I know I have to remind him of those things if they're home alone. So that stuff would definitely fall into the simple dumb ass category. lol.
4tune I just read your hub 'Parenthood The Darker Side'. Very well done and I can relate on many of those things. My daughter also had to be constantly on me the first year and you'd think that would help her sleep- no! i don't think she even slept the first year.
Anyway...back to marriage. Marriage is different for men and women. Those expectations are are rarely discussed before marriage. People just assume everything will be like when they're dating. Actually I've heard it put this way- women marry men expecting them to change and men marry women expecting them not to change. yes, you have to like the person for sure.
I am not going to argue on anything that you wrote about,even if I may not agree with some points, because you have written from your own experiences. I really appreciate the depth that this article has in it. It certainly reflects the truth behind relationships.
Rajiv~ I was going for the truth in this matter so I'm glad you saw that. One of my observations beyond my personal experiences is that many friends of mine or even celebrities seem happy then the next thing you know they're getting divorced so I knew that there must be something in relationships that people aren't admitting to- a deep unhappiness about who they are with. Most people won't admit tit, but they are often the ones that ignore it and later down the road get divorced.By admitting it, however, you can change it and/or get help with it.
I really appreciate this hard core brutally honest hub. I have been in relationship that I know would not last but was very fond of the person. Simple things like personal habits or the lack of stimulating conversation can prove to be torture once married or living together.Thanks for this!
Onelove~ yes, I agree about the torture part. It certainly doesn't take a huge catastrophe to break up a marriage- it can be the little mundane or annoying things. A lot of these people stick it out until it is torture.
STOP IT!!! FUN!!!!!!!!
-johnathan-
use the force Obi-Won
I don't really know anyone here, but this marriage indifference hub, really hits it right on the nose. And I think it affects more marriages than people are willing to admit. I've been married a long time and yes, I've also read Too good to leave, Too bad to stay at one point. Do I have that backwards??? Anyway, I'm going to shorten my post because so much of what I've personally experienced has been said here by so many others. The only pearl of wisdom I have is there's always a tipping point where each person knows "they're done", or that they're put too much into the marriage to throw it away. And that answer lies only inside ourselves.
Idea Gal~ You touched on my exact point- it occurs in mroe marriages than people are willing to admit. You also have a great point about people's tipping point- very true. I was in a 5 yr relationship and I was unhappy for a while and one day I was just done. Life is too short to not be happy, and we should be wise enough that happy doesn't happen all the time, but I'm willing to bet many people still married are unhappy most of the time. Thank you so much for adding to the discussion.
I think part of it is, women are always going to try and make marriage better, where men want a more perfect professional life, women want a more stable and secure emotional life.... "girls just want to have fun un" except not so much that it upsets the secure flow of finance...lol... where guys have never really thought about the settling down thing... they just like her and love the sex... like two super highways running parallel, neither are connected but both are built so close to one another it appears they are on the same road... there is a concrete wall in between the two and as we ride down the hwy together, we begin to realize that the barriers are in place... when each couple becomes aware of these challenges, love begins to be defined by how we handle the road... if the husband or wife decides to remain on the road that has no access to the other, then pretty soon they both tire of trying to cross into each others lanes... the barrier being how each of us see our own participation in the marriage... the dislike comes when we decide to ride together and no longer are riding separately... we can all remember how hard it was when we all started trying to live with one another... at first we all say, well I'm just not used to it, and begin to suppress our own beliefs to come closer to one another...then both begin to realize there are certain things about our love for ourselves as well as our chosen love, that we can never change... there in lies the moment the challenge becomes a problem... perspective is the key... to imagine what, our better half is having to deal with... is a gift that few couples possess in the beginning... after some difficulty many couples just divorce, while others seek help from therapy, and start to practice the stranger giving advice within their own intimate relationship... neither is the answer... to solve the dislike factor, one must return to where one started which is very hard to do, or get off your side of the road and enter on to the same side of the hwy as our husbands and wives... the word" unhappy is so ambiguous that it's impossible to land on the same page without carefully considering what our partners needs and desires are and are going to be... the frustration lies mostly in the inability or refusal to communicate more readily...if you are having trouble with one another, talk it out more, interject thoughts that are not logical... because Love is not logic... if it were every man on earth would be happy and every woman on earth would have only peace and hope...lol... that ain't happening, right now...lol... it is possible but not probable... unless, one decides to actually, try and live fully sacrificing for each others need... I am 41 years in with my spouse, happy, content, at peace, still lusting for and within the relationship... the single easiest and yet hardest thing, I have ever under taken... I was lucky... we were best friends before becoming lovers, what that taught us was there are many folders that the trials and joys of marriage fit into... best to keep them organized, for when the dislikes come up... we always go to the file and look through, finding a file of joy to explore, not taking the disagreement off the table but looking at the good, before we have to address the bad... so if you take this title literally... "I love you but I don't like you"...one has a great basis for liking each other more... "if one is abandoned to love, it is easier to like one another"
J~ very wise words indeed. I was with my best friend for a few years and decided it wasn't enough, but now I can see the value in it. Still, I was definitely not a match for that man. We're still friends though.
From what I understand men and women are very different in relationships and many men and women never come close to understanding the other gender, therefore the love is there, but the ability to happily coexist is strained.
I agree it is a lot of perspective.
HI Izetti, you are correct in the assumption that we view the relationship different than men... with women it's all connected like one strand of wire that is wrapped continuously around, in and through our lives....it's why women usually lose interest in sex after they have gone through some trauma with their husbands.... the emotional desire becomes damaged and unless we go back and retool..lol... no pun intended... we lose something that we don't even see slipping away.. we have this vision of who he is and when that is damaged it doesn't go away... men on the other hand live their lives moment to moment and none of the moments are connected, well some are but they do have the ability to leave the moment, where for women that is difficult...men have the unique ability to compartmentalize their entire lives... so when he is staring at the tube and you ask what are you thinking, he says nothing... he is really is thinking nothing... women are never in that boat... I mean never...lol...it's probably the social skills that each possess that takes us down different paths...if you were able to look into the male brain you could see many boxes, each having what he would do and is doing and has done very neatly organized... unlike his damn office that's all over the place...lol.... women on the other hand are organized on the outside and seem to be pleasantly moving down the road of beauty and peace, yet on the inside if we could take a look, it's all connected, why didn't he notice this or that, there is an angst that seems to accompany the one wire, everything in my life is connected theory... leading one to believe, that the dreaded " I have a head ache, not tonight honey" could actually be the truth... sometimes...lol..lol... each of us look at him and say how in the world does he have to have sex all the time.. well it may be simpler than we think... his emotional life is in different boxes, where hers is one continuous thread.. he doesn't feel that one thread as she does, so he has to go back to that particular box (lol..sorry) each time... where she still retains the feelings because it's all connected... the challenge lies in that if he hurts her, the hurt remains in the thread... she must stop and repair it or the relationship suffers.. for him the constant push from testosterone and the inability to retain those intimate feelings often put couples at odds.. he wants it every night, she doesn't see how he could be so shallow and begins to judge his love... which is a mistake... he is not like her... then when she judges him, he gets hurt because he has entrusted to her his lack of knowledge during intimacy... the rise and popularity of great lovers like Cassanova and Valentino are largely based on womens perception that these men could understand her emotion thread...
J~ it takes me time to digest some of your comments- oh how you make me think!You have hit the target on this and some of which my husband and I are learning in counseling. Women are rivers, every experience every emotion flows into the next and they are constantly flowing and yes, men compartmentalize. He conquered her and therefore his love, marriage, and get the woman box is fulfilled- no need to do anything else- she is his. You are so right about the judging too.
Yes, "He conquered her and therefore his love, marriage, and get the woman box is fulfilled- no need to do anything else- she is his"... is such a dangerous thing but it's true.... so as soon as he believes that he is in trouble and so is his wife, there it is again... His wife... damn when do we change that statement...lol..lol it's like we are a possession... lemme out...ouch...lol... lets face it men suck...lol... there I said it... and I don't have a black eye... yet...lol... I think they are cute and oh my they take my breath away sometimes, but they act strange and smell... yuk... so it would be great to have a rich, kind one that was mute, that liked to bath ... lol...lol..
Yes I can see the river thing, when we are young the river is sweet and flows so simply from up stream, when we are middle aged the river still flowing but has come into the rapids, by the time we are older, his boat is in the middle of giant rapids and he is having to hold on with all his might, afraid he is going to be dumped into the raging waters at any moment and drown by unpleasant under currents... lol... is that what you are talking about...
There must be something in men for so many women to put up with them. i like your river analogy- i can see some truth in that.
I am not married, but I think if someone thinks the TV is more interesting than their spouse, then they might not be that interesting themselves. TV is a nice amusement once and awhile, but I find a lot of shows people rave about kind of boring. Why not take a class with your spouse, go hiking, or find a hobby both of you could be interested in. For instance, you could both take a Spanish or art class. It would definitely give the couple something new to talk about.
SweetiePie~ you bring up good points and I wish I could figure out when TV becomes more interesting to some people than real life action and doing something with someone you love. It really helps to have hobbies apart and together. Thanks for stopping by.
Yes there is something in all men that women like, it could be, they are a lot like the dolls we played with, or they are so different than the dolls we played with, one or the other...lol... I think the coolest thing is they actually try to do what we say...and I guess that's the game, how much each of us can get them to do, is how far we go as women...lol... who said guys were competitive...lol... women are playing a much heavier game... the guys they are all about sports, hey the girls are about, life and children and security, all of those things cost money...lol... at the wedding, she said... now give me your lunch money or I'll whip your ass...lol... funny but true...
He is still the king of the jungle... but it's her jungle...lol
Jeanine~ I never played with dolls so here's my analogy. I played with my favorite toy, which were ponies, and I think I've always gone after the rougher type because I want to tame them like I would a wild stallion. I've always been successful but never quite liked them as much once they were tame.
The differnces between the sexes are proof of opposites attract. Secretly we know they are good at what we aren't. That fascinates us.
yes but that fascination gets some of us in trouble.... lol... I can only think of one thing they can do really that the girls can't...and that's lift boxes...lol..lol..lol...
yes, they're pretty good at moving stuff out of the way for me to sweep and vaccume- lol.
There is one thing they do I Love and if you find one that can rang your bell... they are definitely a keeper... mmmmm... the beatles said it..." I gotta feeling... a feelin deep inside... oh yeah"...lol...
Funny J!
Great blog! Thanks for sharing the ugly underbelly of marriage. There seems to be a conspiracy of silence in which couples want to appear to have a perfect marriage and are not honest about some of the pitfalls of the institution. I wish more couples were honest like you so that single people can get a full scope of what marriage really is about: both the good and the difficult.
Lynda~ I would consider myself pragmatic in that I think more people should think twice before getting married and the reality kicks in after they've spent $25,000+ on a wedding. I am OK in my marriage and it works for me, but there are some realities that no one told me about or I couldn't have even guessed. I think mroe people should be honest but so many want to appear perfect. Friend of mine getting divorced after 4 years and I actually admired their marriage- thought everything was great. Thank you so much for stopping by to read.
TheManWithNoPants Level 7 Commenter 10 months ago
To be honest, I have to digest this a little more. Gad, this is good Sis. I've got so many things to say. I gotta sort them out a bit. This is good stuff. Real good stuff. I'll be back.
jim