Flaws in Feminism (A Woman's Perspective)
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Thank you feminists
There is lot to thank the feminists for. Generations ago, women begun to have a choice to work...or not, have access to activities and jobs once exclusively for men, ability to do more things outside of the home, including voting and gaining property rights. Some things they continue to do today is fight for ending sexual assault and domestic violence, which I am thankful for as well.
Overall though, somewhere around the 70's and forward, feminism took a wrong turn. Some of it was effects of our new "freedoms" and they inadvertently caused a landslide of other issues. Feminism has gotten ugly today because it has increasingly become more about making political statements and taking narrow minded to a new low. It has become a political platform, even a trend for some women.
This was once an exclusive group of people who originally stood against that type of hypocrisy. Some of the issues they've chosen in recent years are petty and idle, a disgrace to serious issues that face women as a whole. Many generations ago feminism stood for dignity in being a woman. They were not trying to get or take anything from any other group, but now much of feminist thoughts and agendas focus on taking from other groups to achieve their goals.
Femasculine
The old goals of fighting for all women alike, having choices and better lives has taken a backseat to personal agendas such as politics and sexual orientation groups.For instance, feminists are focusing on political correctness, such as using the "she" form within written text rather than the generic "he". Also making some women feel as though they have been violated when they actually haven't- this stems from a sue-happy society. Political correctness is a waste of time in general- it's like potato or potata. It is politics because only politics focus on the minuscule issues, spinning their wheels while bigger things need attention.
Femasculine, by my definition, means that society (feminists included) have prematurely and dishonestly celebrated the uprising of women. It is actually an uprising of a more masculine woman. In short, women have to be like men in this society. Feminists reiterate the fact that we don't need men. No, we don't because we have become more like them. I can tell you now that if we play their game and compete to be like men, against men, we will never win. This is no solution at all and yet here we are on this track.
We are not valued as women. Of course it is still pleasing for women to be attractive (which is also geared toward men), but we truly haven't gained anything in society by utilizing our feminine qualities and assets (other than looks, which seems to be the most notable quality). Our strength that men claim we have over them is using our looks to persuade, but this is also an inherent weakness in that it tempts men and strikes fire in some to do pretty awful things to women as well. Not even looks are our strength.
Pant Suits and Princess Gowns
Is being a princess a disgrace to women? Does that mean we are still focusing on looks. Yes and no. The problem is celebrity interpretation of princess is a spoiled brat that gets what she wants because, and only because, she wants it.
I am raising a 4 yr old girl so I have had my fair exposure to Disney princesses and a gamut of movies. What's wrong with wanting to be like a princess? Women should expect a man to treat her good. Are there princes likely to be lined up for every girl. No way, but like I said, a man should treat a woman good. Problem is, women are caught between thinking they must be with the perfect man or not get married because a prince doesn't exist, or settle.
Feminists have taught us if we want something, we do it ourselves. We don't need to be pampered by him because we'll power play for his job and pay for the pampering at a spa. This isn't the solution.
Let's talk about the princesses in the Disney movies. They embrace the traits of a woman.In many Disney movies the princess is hard-working (Tiana in The Frog Princess), adventurous (Ariel in Little Mermaid), kind to the less fortunate (Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs), resourceful (Rapunzel in Tangled). I could easily name a 100 traits that are wonderful to embody as a princess, as a woman and none of them are spoiled like the celebrity version. There is nothing wrong with being a princess.
Stay-at-home Loser
No pants suits or power suits here. What is the least respected job in the U.S? Stay-at-home mom and housewife; least paid, least appreciated, and least recognized and legitimized in U.S culture. We do not value the mothers that stay home to raise our future generations. I believe my mom staying at home with me for the first ten years of my life gave me a wonderful start. She knew me better than anyone and knew if my course in life was trailing and if I was lying. I never dabbled in drugs, smoking, sex as a teen. My mom knew me so well she'd pick up on those warning signs before anything happened. She was involved. However, not every mom can stay home.
I see women who work outside the home struggle with their children because they basically have only the weekends to get to know their child. They have to get information and tips from the daycare providers on what to do with their kids. Those people know their kids better than them. This, of course, is only my opinion, but don't get me wrong I am very much for women having a choice to stay at home or work. For some women, they would not choose to stay at home and that's OK as long as it's a choice. Unfortunately most dual income households and single women do not have that choice.
Women choose to go to work to not only provide for their family, but to have more stuff that they really don't need. They also go to work because it makes them feel important and useful to society. It's a respectable status.
I initially went to work after my daughter was born because I felt good telling people my respected position title. I laughed in the faces of sloppy housewives. This false notion was fed to me by a society that took it's cue from feminists who believed they were empowering us. My husband and I wanted to make a comfortable living. It really wasn't for survival, it was to afford more things. It amazed me how easy my job was compared to the days I stayed at home with my baby. I'd sit at my desk and look at my baby's picture and think 'this is working, it's so easy'.
Just because it's easy, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Staying at home is tough, not glamorous at all. How many jobs do you get crapped on and not be able to jump in the shower when you want to and even if you did, it wouldn't matter cause you'll just get crapped on again five minutes later. I made this choice to stay home when my daughter was 5 months old. It literally cut our income in half.
But, let's take into account the single mothers who have to work. This is obviously not a choice they are given and to me, that's proof we aren't addressing a big issue. So many single moms out there and most are not given resources or know their options, but most will never have a chance to stay at home with their children if they wanted to. How can society be failing so blatantly in this- where are the feminists on this one? Yes, women can now work outside the home, but there is no financial support for single women who want to stay at home. Trust me, staying at home is not the lazy way out of working.
78% of single moms hold a job and 45% have more than one. This is a lot of time away from kids, kids who probably live in bad neighborhoods who need the most attention. Over half are at or near the poverty level. One in four babies are born to single moms. But these statistics are not only referring to poor class, but to older moms. Feminists have eased the stigma of sleeping around and having a child outside of marriage.
Feminism have encouraged women to go ahead and conceive outside of marriage, don't feel like you "need" a man to have a child, easing the stigma of women sleeping around behaving like men at their worst. The focus is on individualism and not needing a partner to raise a child or not having to "put up with" irreconcilable differences is a feminist pursuit.
Long ago feminists groups fought for women having a choice to work outside the home. They fought for women to be individuals and have a voice. Women felt devalued and unappreciated as a stay-at-home mom so of course working outside the home made them feel worthy and better about themselves. I know, I was one of those. Suppose feminists fought to make stay-at-home a more respected position so some of the women looking for validation wouldn't have to go outside the home seeking it. Feminists gave women the choice, but also confirmed that staying at home is a lesser pursuit.
Work and Family: Feminists failed the balancing act
I see the family unit as the glue in our society and I don't see feminists fighting to keep that intact. It's just more focus on politics and individualism. The fact that feminists pushed for women to thrive as men do in our society was ill-conceived. The notion of a balance has never come to fruition. A more substantial gain in the feminist corner would have been to have women thrive as women in society. For women to be seen as valuable because of the unique feminine qualities and talents that women have to offer (besides looks).
While there are feminist topics of importance such as discovering yourself as a woman and embracing those traits, these are highly individual, somewhat New Age or metaphysical, rather than benefiting women on a whole in society. A woman may find her 'inner woman' at home, but once she is at work, she is in a man's world. This is a struggle I see in women nowadays who almost seem to live different lives, too many different roles. At work they perform as a man, at home they need to be mommy, on their own they are trying to rediscover what it means to be a woman, but it is lost once they step foot outside the door into society.
When will I be happy?
Probably never. Hey, I'm honest. As long as we try to beat men at being like men, we'll lose the battle. Hell, we don't even fight battles the same way to begin with. Most of the issues surrounding women's rights could be resolved if women were as physically powerful as men and men decided to be subordinate to women. This isn't going to happen- we're different and should be celebrated as such.
For either man or woman, one must respect the other as they are and for their specific traits just to tolerate them and live happily together. Men have a deeper inherent need to be dominant than women so the focus should still be on not overtaking one sex, but respecting the other. I know dominant women and they are endlessly exhausted because it isn't truly what a woman is. I think feminists today believe in female superiority when neither sex should ultimately be regarded as superior.
I believe many men, especially the abusive and mentally ill, will always disrespect a woman because they have in the back of their mind the realization that they are physically stronger. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out and usually the dumbest will in fact use it. It's like kicking the dog- man will always have woman to vent frustrations and feelings of powerlessness onto. I have so many examples of this randomly taking place in my own life just within society, it would blow your mind.
We will always have these issues because of man's ability to overpower a woman physically. If physical strength is seen as the ultimate strength to be measured by then that's not the battle we should be fighting. Instead of beating men at their own game, let's make our own rules and measure strength in our own way.
Of course women are not the only victims. Women are filing for divorce as often if not more than men. Women are becoming increasingly educated as they outnumber men who graduate college. Women have certainly found a step up in society. So should feminists want total equality and to be treated the same as men? This is such an impossible notion for me to wrap my head around because we are simply...different. So when will feminists be happy is the true question.
While there are feminist topics of importance such as discovering yourself as a woman and embracing those traits, these are highly individual, somewhat New Age or metaphysical, rather than effecting women on a whole in society. A woman may find her 'inner woman' in the privacy of her home, but once she is at work, she is in a man's world. This is a struggle I see in women nowadays who almost seem to live different lives. At work they perform as a man, at home they need to be mommy, on their own they are trying to rediscover what it means to be a woman sans various outside roles, but this is where is see the imbalance in society. I don't believe it is right to expect a woman to be ten different people to fit into various aspects of her life. As a strong woman, that's my fight.
Other Reading
- War of The Sexes Verdict: Women Are Better Than Men
- Should You Have a Plan B When Married?
In my life, as many of us were taught, having a plan B was crucial to survival; career, school, place to live, things to do. You get the point. There was a lot of value to these backup plans and I had to use many of them repeatedly. In other words, t
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Very nice, I think part of the challenge lies in that women raise their boys and girls differently... I have boys and there is nothing like the relationship between mom and son... partly because we fell for their father and there is the hope that we can finally change him like we thought we could when we were younger...the model so to speak... also as we look at the girls we often say, I know exactly why she is doing that because I was like that when I was her age... is that true or does she just look similar to what we were... I do believe women have amazing traits that will take us to running the world one day, and I think feminist see these things but have become impatient with how slowly things move... therefore, just as women have gotten their way throughout history, they begin to complain... hey it works with him at hom, so why not use it in the world... if it's a mans world... I know how to effect it...lol...lol... bitch, bitch bitch...lol...one does not see we are our own worst enemy... when we decide there is another place we can inhabit besides living in a mans world then we see another world... again the day woman sees she is in her own world will be the scariest day in history, for at that time, does she retaliate for all the abuse or does she change it and have compassion on her man and all the other men on earth...we are two becoming one, one must love in other to be strong, one must live in order to carry on... one must coporate in order to create something new... we must trust one another...
The questions you just raised in your comment, the philosophical conundrum, sounds to me like great raw material for a novel! You should write it. And btw, I think women have always ruled the world and always will. They have the power to alter our perception of historical icons for eternity. Exhibit A: Marilyn Monroe. Exhibit B: Monica Lewinsky. And I think you pointed out the greatest flaw in women that I have seen personally: this mistaken belief that they can "change" the man they're with to fit the the model of who they think he should be (and this model is based, without exception, on the positive impression women have of their own father or the idealized father a woman's mother told them they were supposed to have). This magical thinking that some women have has destroyed as many relationships and led to as many divorces as the magical thinking of men who are sexually unfaithful and think they will not get caught.
Well that's twice in two blogs, someone has suggested novel. Perhaps you should listen, and when you get the time, gitter done!
You know, we've talked about this subject, and without doing a blog here, just let me say that you know I think you have a very fresh and right on perspective on this.
It's good to see you back! Make it a habit!!
jim
Thank you, Izettl. A very good read provoking much thought. Coming to mind, first was Hegel's dialectic on Master-Slave or Slave-Master, whether of self or within (a)society(s), and next depending on view what IS family. My mind is a buzzz with history and stuff now.
I'm gon'na bookmark this and comeback again. If you discover a moment say hello to my aunt in Renton with a wave for me and I'd appreciate your thoughts on a hub A Numinous Experience
mjfarns- well you totally get my point and well-summed up in your comment. THanks so much for stopping by.
Jeanine~ yes, I see where you're going with this and i know your perspective. I also see the whining and complaining and I am guilty of a little too but mostly when i'm expected to be many people in one day- it's exhausting and honestly I think it was an inadvertant side effect of feminism. In a way, we wanted to be treated like men, but yet we're not men and I think most women, especially the feminists, aren't sure what would make them happy. Do we really want everything man has? yes, some do, but I would rather be respected as a woman and for hte traits that are inherent to women as men should be respected, not beat down for their traits. I guess it has a lot to do with respect.
mjfarns~ so true about changing each other rather than bringing out the best of a man or woman. I have really had to learn that lesson, but personally I am always trying to change and be better or see things differently so sometimes I think others, including men, fit into that category, but there should be a mutual respect for the traits that each sex has. I just have to leave my favorite saying here with you: men marry women hoping they won't change and women marry men hoping they will change.
I also think since the beginning of feminism women have been geared to not be happy with whatever our circumstances are and that;s why the constant complaining and belief that we must fight until we're satisfied, but no feminist put the cap on what is the end goal. What would make them happy. I am a strong woman, but have never considered myself feminist. I am strong willed mostly because of my personality not because I need to overpower specifically as a woman. Many women are having a hard time with the balance and I know they want to "do all and be all", but that's a slippery slope- kind of like, careful what you wish for.
I totally agree about what is troubling marriages- you targeted a couple of good ones; cheating and trying to change someone.
Jim~ good to see you buddy. I just love all your profile pic changes lately. Keep me guessing.
I just happened upon reading a book about girls dressing as princesses and the whole princess thing and how damaging it is, etc. It was written by a feminist so it sparked some thoughts for me about all this. Thoughts I've had for a long time and thought I'd get it out.
For one, many people think I am probably a feminist because I am a strong type of personality, but that's not the case. I was a tomboy but I absolutely don't mind my daughter dressing as a princess and teaching her to cook and all the things that might make a feminist cringe. I think women need to know that they can be strong and feminine.
Anyway, we'll connect one of these days. The rush of holidays is upon us. Just seems like it's going so fast.
tsmog~ you always give me good food for thought and stuff I gotta go check out. What I discovered writing this hub is there is so much more thoughts about this(and history, also other topics related to it) that I could go into, but even I have to think about some of this a little more.
I really came into my own opinion about all this when i took a work/family class in college. It was a fairly objective layout of topics, history, and even views from across the world about work and family. In the U.S we often don't see beyond our way of doing things (as the only way), but there are more ways. INteresting stuff...
Renton- I was up that way couple of months ago- try to avoid it cause of traffic. But I lived near there for a couple of years until it drove me nuts. lol.
Mj... you are very kind, but then if one looks closely at men, they are responsible for the good and the bad that is present...I think that's hard for the feminist to except...
a unique thing about woman... she has the ability to adapt to almost any circumstance... I've found if one has the fortitude to encourage her for greatness.... she becomes great..... want a better wife treat her better... kinder... treat her with kindness... each husband has the wife we help grow and develop... she has an amazing ability to reflect his feelings and behavior..... so I guess my question to all men is... how's your wife...
understand... that's how some women feel... and I am a great believer in this myself...Izetti... it is perfect in that each is the opposite or the yin and yang of the situation... so we all become one really... what if we are evolving to have both traits or both sexes... I think this, because there are women who fit so perfectly into the masculine and men who fit perfectly into the feminine... two spirits so to speak... with both male and female possessing both... how else could one learn to truly respect one another unless I can feel what you've felt, learned what you've learned and even approach feeling the same pain as you've felt... then John Lennon may have said it best... "I am he and he is me and we are we and we are all together"...lol...lol... what if we all do possess both....
Jim is right you need to be here writing... you are missed when you are not around... hope you are well...
Izetti... it is about respect... one of the reasons we are in trouble at this point is, men and women both have realized and used to the fullest... man's respect for womans beauty and the intimacy package she holds ... woman has had to wield the power she has and has used man's weakness to get her way for all of time... man on the other hand has used her weakness in needing support or liking to be supported, might be a better statement, to subjugate her will to his own... both seem to have taken the low road when it comes to each others worth... we need to reboot and start again... and I think when you say I want to be loved and repected for the traits I possess is the key... peer and parental pressure has always taught us to conform... I think when we realize we shouldn't have ever conformed it is usually to late... and we have all lived at least part of our lives for someone else, or by someone elses standards... example is the child who knows or thinks she knows her parents and later finds out that they are nothing like they told her...abuse comes in so many forms we are all very close to it, and sometimes do not see we are the abused or even sometimes the abuser...even in the garden I sometimes wonder if Adam said if you give me what I want, which is more of you... I'll let you try this forbidden fruit... or Eve may have said.. if you let me try the forbidden fruit, I'll let you have more of what I have forbidden to you...lol... hey my question is, why does there have to be someone to blame... I think there in lies the challenge... we are keepers of our own destiny... so let me love you and you try and love me... for I've never met anyone like you and you have never met anyone like me.... two can become one, but when I give you all my good, if I truly give you all of me... I also give you my bad... so as we grow in humankind... we must learn to make the good our goal... for if I were you and you were me... I would love you more... and we would love eternally... I love this hub izetti... you are my fav...
Mj... I am intrigued by your statement of raw material for a novel... please expound, as I look wide eyed into your face... and truly try and project my most innocent, loving concern for your masculine opinion...lol... I and I do mean that sincerely and am not punching fun... just tickled even at my own response... I do understand that it is maddening for all men to try and understand women... for we all do believe we can change any man... it is the intoxication of the beautiful flower that we possess in the privacy of our most prized flower in the garden of purity that all of womankind hold and all of mankind desires... so that being said... I am sitting, waiting patiently , with my most compassionate smile, eyes wide and and a yearning within my heart to hear your precious words... as I would with my most passionate concern for all men and your most beautiful tribe... lol...
Jeanine~ along the lines of what you were saying in one of your comments about wanting a wife to be kinder then be kinder to her. I agree. I believe women are strong because of wonderful traits they have to offer, but I still believe a man should lead his family and if there is a problem, not to take a back seat approach to it.
I talked about respect and many men want it, in fact almost demand it, but have not acted in a way to deserve it.
When you talk baout opposites and yin and yang- I agree as well. Men and women can bring out the best or the worst in each other. I see a lot of the worst. I see that many men do not want to understand women or in ways to only serve their own purposes, like how to get them in bed (wink wink).
In my own marriage I struggled with losing my identity since I took off from working outside the home to be with my little one. I was a master of my domain at work and went home to lose all of that. My husband goes to work and wants to be master of the home domain as well. I feel connected to the home because I work and live here so I feel things should be geared around the woman at home- let me cook the way I want to, let me offer advice about the child because I'm with her 24/7, let me decorate and organize, etc. I wish men would let women utilize whatever strengths inherent in them and use to an advantage, not something that they reject or feel threatened by.
Yes, we do need to reboot and start again. I think there is a fear of letting women utilize their strengths, for fear we may "take over". This has been put in our heads by feminists as well. If we worked together with our strengths then man and woman would be glorious together. I hear so often, and even in my own marriage, that women ish their husband was more of a partner in their life. I talked about feminists suggesting women don't need men and this also comes from men believing they don't need women other than for the intimate stuff.
Oh my... this last paragraph rings so true...there is a way that we take the best of the feminist and the best of man's passion for woman learn to listen to each other and instantly we create something new... simply because no one is pursuing this side of the idea...
I am in agreement that it is the wife's domain if she is home... and many of us are happy to be wives and be taught what our husbands might like.... but the choice and the design should definitely be in our hands... after all he is our choice... but right there is where I think the idea is born that women have a right or a need or the ability to change men into what they see as a great partner or husband...
Yes I have a wonderful counter part... and there is an honest effort to be partners... when we started as youngsters we were committed but I think it was the trials we have faced together that has tempered a real partnership... how we handled large events in our lives seems to have melted the two of us into each other at certain times in our history... a death of life and death seems to have paired us together... we walked along side others who were facing the same pain but we always seemed to choose a different option than the rest... so by now we run in harness petty well... there are some moments where the practical over come the passion for a short time... so they are fun to look at and hold and explore...
He only wants to be master because of his youth, he will learn that being master is to agree to what's best... and what's best is not always what is the easiest for men to do... they always want to be right... such a strange thing that is... the need to be right... where does that come from... is that the playground thing that we used to giggle at while we watched them sweat... lol... joking but it does resemble that behavior... a little...lol...lol
a dance of life and death.... I meant to say...lol... sorry...lol
Jeanine~ I've learned that men want to be right like they're personally winning the superbowl for their team. It's a big deal to them and my husband can't believe that when I disagree or argue that it's not to be right, it's to be heard and understood. To be heard and understood feels as though we too offer some value to the relationship, to the partnership. If we don't get that then we can feel as if we have no purpose to a man other than rearing children and/or sex. I think feminism started with women who wanted to be valued for things other than what I mentioned above, but wouldn't it be nice to also be valued for those things as well and everything else a woman has to offer besides those. In a perfect world...
I really take to heart what you said about making it throuh some major things in life to form a stronger bond and relationship. It's true. My husband and I have been through a lot both before we met and since we've been married. He is the best during those times and that's what counts. When my arthritis was bad, to have my husband do the simple things that I could not do or help me with the most basic things, it meant the world to me. I had never been that dependent on someone since I relied on my mom when I was really little and couldn't do much by myself.
Hi Izetti; Excellently written and well-thought out hub. Very well articulated. I agree with what you say. This whole concept of beating-men-by-becoming-just-like-men is flawed and illogical. They can't find a cultural and spiritual identity by immitating the very people they've been railing against.
Over-reacting to trivial things makes the concept of feminism look petty. For example, a few weeks back, I was discussing a meek fellow I knew and I said that he was happy to let his wife be the boss of the house. I was then accused by a woman of being sexist and 'stuck-in-the-past' for suggesting that women can only be the boss when a man lets her. I just shook my head. What a pointless thing to get mad about! Save the indignant anger for when it's really necessary.
Wanting to be the best-of-both-worlds doesn't leave much middle ground to find an identity. Trying to be the perfect single supermom at home and the stone-cold corporate raider who beats all the competition at work...going to those extremes doesn't allow for any place for a woman to find a comfortable medium.
Very well done hub.
Rob
Rob~ your first paragraph there is so true. It's so strange to me too...and I'm a woman!!
Yes, petty is definitely the word I'd use. I've been accused of being both a feminist and also been hammered by feminists- so there's no winning. Yes, I'm a strong woman, but I can't agree much with feminists. On the other side of the coin, I've been attacked by feminists for things too. What you're saying about the lady is basically what I try to believe is; pick your battles. Not everything need be a battle and my point is that feminists haven't gotten much headway in the last couple of decades, mostly because of tackling petty stuff.
I see women robbed of their happiness trying to be someone they aren't. It's led us down a path of trying to do it all and nothing truly gets done well.
Thanks for stopping by Rob.
reality is "if anything matters everything matters" the shack....so I beg to differ if women get anything done then something is getting done...lol...lol... I believe woman is coming to terms with her abilities just now... in these days I mean... and unless more of you and your tribe speak up the agenda will be rules by the simple minded and petty... there are no bad women... you are all worth while just different... you consider the rest of human kind... where as long ago so did man... yet life became so tenacious that most men were overwhelmed... resorting to violence even against their own families... the most despicable thing that could ever happen to man... and it did... we let our anger over come us... so goes the rule of man on this planet... his demise is assured along as he can not control anger... it's the reason we are all talking about it... there is a cross road just ahead... when woman thinks maturely about why man is angry... closer... look deep within your heart.... it 's because he sees her and wished he could be more like her and less like himself... "She said ... try not to embrace anger.... it steals moments from your life... takes fire from your eyes.... places trash in your mouth.... promotes stupidity... anger... a twisted side of passion...."
Understand, he is angry because he knows one day she'll look at who she really is... Izetti... you are this kind of divine gift... your pain so plain to see... you laughter so complete... I love women... and I love men for all the beautiful things we both are... just think one day soon ... man will have the opportunity to behold what is beautiful in the world... remember each of us is as beautiful as each other... one just needs to take the time and explore...
Wow you guys (mostly Iz and Jean) seem to have a lot to say on this. I'm hearing that you both think there's still a long way to go in the world as far as women are concerned. I find myself being very appreciative of my parents. My take on how they approached their marriage was really a partnership. I didn't see one or the other as being the ONE who wore the pants in the relationship. From my childlike point of view they discussed stuff that I suppose were issues and rarely yelled at each other. They had disagreements of course. But thinking back, my memory remembers them having the thing I wish my marriage had more of. The ability to respectfully compromise or AT LEAST not subject the kids to a loud yelling match over stupid things. Those might be the same thing. Ha ha ha...
Anyway I don't know if its me or the middle class circles I run in, but I don't know anyone who looks down on stay at home moms. From my limited point of view of the people I went to college with it seems to me that a large percentage of women I knew in college are stay at home moms. I'm talking 30 - 50% of them. That's very subjective I know to think that's a lot, but it just seems to me an awful lot of money to spend on an education when your only goal is to meet a guy who will support you and your kids. I hope it isn't just me that thinks its a huge waste of money to treat college as a match making service!!! MAYBE its just me but it seems to me anyone that goes to college should WANT to put that expensive education to good use... I guess it is a free country though. :-)
Anyway I'm getting off track... Bottom line is I just can't see its so hard for people to define themselves as what their roles in life really are. You are a machinist, or a salesperson, or a manager, or a PARENT. Your gender/sex is NOT part of your role in life. Obviously being a woman will cause you to seek different solutions and strategies than a man and vice versa, but in general your sex doesn't define you.
Really good Hub Iz. Very thought provoking.
Jeanine~ great comment and very well said. As a woman it seems whoever gets the angriest wins and we wonder why society is made up of bullies and wars. Women in general can't comprehend quick to react anger, there are those that get angry like men, and it hurts their life more than anger hurts a man;s life. Man has used anger to his advantage. Women need to use their brains for the long term advantage.
Thing is, anger is the unintelligent/immature way to win the battle. We all know its bad communicating to get angry. The result is that it limits or stops the GOOD communication from happening.
I suppose the only legitimate time to use anger is with a child and that can be wrong most of the time ALSO.
Lapse~ ideally a marriage and parenting should be like a partnership- I think many people strive for that in a marriage. You were lucky to witness that with your parents. I had a couple of friends that went to college jsut to get educated so they could meet a successful man and talk smart enough for him. Crazy isn't it? I think back to my reason for going to college and it was because I didn't want to have to depend on a man. I wanted a relationship to be totally natural, not co-dependent, not staged like the women that knew. What's ironic is I met my husband in college but didn't marry him until I graduated a few years later.
You mentioned a tough aspect of my life and that is being educated and a former career woman, but now a stay-at-home mom ( I work part-time at home but nothing to brag about). I'm not sure if being identified by our sex would make that easier on women to be a home mom and be recognized as valuable in society, but I'll tell you I got a lot more recognition as a career woman. THis all goes along with what you say that we're identified by our career positons and home moms certainly aren't glorified so I can see why many women choose a recognizeable caeer rather than motherhood.
I think feminists are tackling the wrong things and it's turned quite political- that's too bad. That is also why women will not be appreciated in general for what they have to offer. We will still be competing against men, and similar to them. Right now our society responds to anger. The media loves it too. I think it's also why congress sits around forever not being able to come to any plans or conclusions about things- men aren't naturally inclined to solve things by talking it out- lol. War is what men understand. That last part is a stretch but it could have some validity who knows. Thanks again for making me think.
Hi Izetti; I agree totally with what you say about competing against men and having to be similar to them. It seems like only male virtues are recognized as virtues these days. (I just wrote a hub about how women are protrayed with male virtues in films.) When will society learn to appreciate the virtues that women have to offer?
Rob
I'll have to go check out your hub. One thing that's changed a lot in movies is more women being older with younger men or being the adulterer, etc. These aren't even virtues.
I believe we are defined by our gender whether we want to be or not. Women are marginalized if they do stay home.. what good does she do for the whole, I think is the sentence I have heard...she raises his children and tries to make him happy..."oh what a nice wife"...lol... and they didn't leave you guys out either... each time you go into the room marked "gentlemen" is not meant as a compliment, it first started out as a room for men that didn't want to embarass women by their vulgar ways of relieving themselves... "oh he is a gentle man"...lol.. which in a wild West, rock em sock em, saloon filled little town in the middle of no where on the great plains of America, is not the guy, "Miss Kitty" fell in love with...lol... Lapse most men say what you do about anger, but behind closed doors I believe you guys all are angry inside... again I believe it's because most men are taught as boys to hold their emotions in... all women know that a good cry every once in a while is good for the soul... eve Jesus wept... but noooooo... not real men right... give me a break... we are all defined by what society believes about each of our genders... can we un-define or redefine what society has deemed as woman and man... I think that's what the feminist started out to do... somehow it hasn't turned out though... and I believe just like men, women are corrupted by power... when the womens movement started . we just wanted to vote, but as soon as we organized, it was katy bar the door... "hey we can get this and this and this done"...lol... Ex. Don't believe we are defined by what society believes about gender, look at transsexuals as a group... izzettl you know about this group... every female to male trans is over joyed at how much freedom and respect his new body commands, every male to female trans is stunned at how little respect her new body commands.... it's worst for him, because he was already angry as a man... now it escalates into the unbearable... there are flaws in feminism but thank God for these brave women... I didn't notice the men joyously giving up any of their rights or talking about equality when it came to woman...I think at the turn of the century the joke was... "my God my wife wants to vote, I wonder if she would actually know what the issues are... the right to vote or be equal is the issue... dumb ass...lol... "don't make me open a can of Whop Ass"...lol... if men do not like women always complaining then wake up... she knows how to affect living in a mans world... bitch, bitch, bitch...lol...
"a unique thing about woman... the ability to adapt to almost any circumstance... if one has the fortitude to encourage her to be great, she becomes great... if I want a better wife, treat her better... kinder, treat her with kindness... each man has the wife he helped grow and develop... she has an amazing ability to reflect our feelings and behavior..... so I guess my question to all men is... how's your wife"...
There is so much hypocrisy and irony about staying at home versus being a working mom. I certainly didn't feel that paper pushing was making a difference in the world when I worked- it was mundane and the exact feeling I got was opposite of making a difference. As a stay at home mom my greatest satisfaction is making a difference to my children for sure- this is priceless to them. But as a former career woman it is tough not to get external reward. This is why I wished society and feminists would concentrate on women actually having a choice and society accepting them as either working outside the home or inside and still being valued.
However, I think we are more defined by what we (for a living/work) do than by gender. Even when I was a waitress I felt like I made a difference to people more than when I had a better career and position later. But being a waitress isn't as highly esteemed. Although I know I changed some lives for sure.
GREAT point about the feelings of a male to female in their new body and so true- I've seen this firsthand.
"if I want a better wife, treat her better... kinder, treat her with kindness... each man has the wife he helped grow and develop... she has an amazing ability to reflect our feelings and behavior..... so I guess my question to all men is... how's your wife". You know I couldn't love this statement any more than I do already- I LOVE it! Women respond to kindness whereas it seems many men expect it and take it, but don't necessarily return it. It means so much to a woman and most will give back tenfold.
jeanine...
I can cry. And you made me cry after reading that beat down of a guy bashing rant... ***sniff sniff*** :-)
I might adapt to this stressful situation but you say women have are unique in having that ability. JOKING! Lol... but not really. :-)
How's my wife? You mean I was supposed to be able to "grow and develop" mine??? Then I think I got one that was returned to the shop cause she is really set in her ways!!! :-) ...unless I'm really deluded as much as you think most of us guys are...or mine isn't the "most" izettle refers to... OR??? I'm actually the woman in the relationship?!?!? OMFG...
yes... you could be her bitch after all...lol... hey I'm so sorry about the beat down...did I make him cry...lol... poor baby... I love men actually... just wished ya'll played fair when it came to the pay... I do love what you've guys built except for the wars and the no health care macho thing... I love some of it though... that wall st thing is fun and working hard is fun... which I think is a mans thing...lol...
Don't forget for the large part feminism IS a good idea and is still only beginning to make changes. Don't let strident, extremist feminists ruin what is a very good point to make - we are all humans and equal as people even though we each have something different to contribute to our own personal worlds.
And watch those Disney Princesses...they are a dangerous crowd conditioning girls to expect beauty and wealth to mean happily ever after! I love them - but they make me want perfection which is never gonna happen!! :)
BTW I love your writing!
Maybe you could talk to her and tell her how to develop me better??? :-)
Half of war is over religion, half is over power, and don't forget half the wars were started OVER women! Yea my fractions are off but ignore that. If only you guys weren't so damned hot! Maybe you should take your share of the blame. :-) Half of it!!! Marriage gives you rights to half. It all makes sense!
I'm sure you are developed quite nicely... and remember to do everything she ask... lol... it will be easier on you in the end...lol... and yes your factions seem a little off but your tone is endearing so I'll over look the math...lol... it's always about your tone... you know that... woman is never to blame... do not collect 200 dollars and do not pass go... lol... some wars were started and stated that they were about a woman... but you and I both know that are about that little thing... well maybe not so little in your case called ego...lol... nice huh... hope you have a great thanksgiving... and New Cinders is right Feminism started out right and we just have to make a few adjustments... maybe chemical castration... oh no... I din't say that...lol... I just thought it loudly...
Woman is never to blame? Oh... why do I feel like you're trying to brainwash me? Do everything she asks... umm ok. :-)
not brainwash... just wash you...lol...oh my ... no I din't say that out loud...... who me I would never want you do do something against your will... lol... have a good thanksgiving... izettl... sorry i got off topic... it was His fault... lapse i mean... he distracted me on purpose...lol...lol... thanks for the read...
NewCinders~ points well taken. I agree with you on some of them for sure. It's always the extremists we hear about- making the headlines. My traits as a woman go unnoticed by many because I am a stay-athome mom, but because of that title nobody would know my past of being great at a former career, 4.0 college graduate, etc... you know what I'm talking about. I just don't think women should be downplayed when they take on a role that is significantly a woman's role. We should be allowed dignity in all roles.
I'm not anti-princess in any way, but I see your point on that. Parents play a huge role in that. I'm not going to keep my daughter from watching it as some feminists do. My daughter has a mind of her own and will play sword fighting or catch frogs while wearing a princess dress. So many women in our society foot the bill for freeloading men and I wish more women did expect a man to sweep her off her feet and provide...maybe not riches to the extreme but I don't think women are epxecting enough from men in the way they are treated.That's been sliding for several decades now and it goes along with feminist movements. The problem is women are now in a position of having to work even if they want to be with their kids- more single moms, more men not working, and more pressure for women to do it all because feminists fought for women being able to do it all. What pressure and less freedom.
Lapse and Jeanine~ Happy THanksgiving by the way!
Women are better at mind-reading than men because, as I mentioned, more motivation. Women can be manipulative- that's a weakness but used as a strength just as men use their physical power- both can be for good or bad or just plain survival.
Lapse I've had to learn to "accept" a man into my life. I'm not a feminist but I am a strong woman, however I can see how some women rule the roost. Many go to work and use their power there then go home and rule their home that way too. Whn working in a man's world all day, it is difficult to be a woman when you come home. Since men and women are sharing so many roles from rearing kids to careers, there seems to always be an unbalance of power and role confusion in the home. I have this with my husband. He wants to be king of his home but I also want control over how the home is decorated and organized, how food is cooked. My power hunger is mostly because my role changed from hiring and firing people to staying at home and dealing with children and a lack of recognotion for my stay-at-home job. I also work part-time from home business freelance writing, but in the man's world I was used to, I don't get the recognition anymore. Hence, women should be celebrated for roles they are good at too- like being a mommy. There is still a perception of at home moms being lazy or having it easy- I wish I had their children cause my day is not easy. I suspect it could have something to do with "Married with Children" TV show and Mrs. Bundee sitting around eating BonBons all day. lol.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
I'm with you but would you agree that one could break EVERY conflict down to bad communication and/or an unwillingness to compromise? Both of which is the sign of an unintelligent, immature, and/or impatient person? Not that I do it right every time because I don't, but why can't couples discuss issues at home better? Why are some people so unwilling to let go of their preconceived ideas of how the marital roles of each spouse should be? All relationships are fluid and evolving systems which so many men and women enter into KNOWING that their partner is an intelligent person deserving of respect and compassion and THEN they go right ahead and STILL attack issues by ignoring that intelligence and right to receive respect. People cling to assumptions and stereotypes on what they expected the other one's actions and behaviors should be to them. And they then think that yelling and insulting the other will eventually get them what they want? That's just ignorant.
How can someone not realize that when you get your way through forcing (physical or force of will such as nagging) your spouse into submission on an issue through whatever means that you create resentment and respect is lost.
Unless fast action is required due to imminent loss of life or damage to property should yelling or brute force ever be the answer? I say no. This is a fault of both sexes really.
I'm just on my soap box here... I think we're all on the same page really, we just look at the problem from different angles and have different contexts on different issues.
Happy Thanksgiving.... I think the communicate gap is there because it's to scary to find out what's deep inside of the person we married... most of us see certain trait that we find attractive... Almost all of us make assumptions of why a person is the way they are.. He is kind and sensitive so it must be because he has a handle on his temper, which doesn't mean that at all, it could mean he is suppressing his own desires to find someone who he can live with... both men and women do it all the time... real love is cultivated over a long period of time, trust and forgiveness, acceptance trumps almost everything. We who do not get recognition for being home and running it well, carry a certain angst because of the baggage, what she thought of the house wife within herself. Men do the same thing, I know very successful men who haven't made it to the position that they feel they should and it's as if they did nothing... their business is big but not as big as they wanted so, they get depressed... size matters, not just to women but to men also. For most stay at home dads the same thing happens to the relationship, he feels taken for granted just as she does, and early stats show, if the wife is making 75k or above, she is apt to start to fix her relationship next. So with either sex, no matter male or female, the home position is low on the list of respect. communication or the lack there of is the challenge. I think if we talk then we start to respect, what each of us bring to the table. I knew a divorced man who married a very successful woman, but he wanted her to stay home with his young child, he had lost his wife to cancer, but the baby had survived. The woman decided she would do it, but presented him a bill of how much it would cost him if she didn't accept his offer. And it was quite a lot. He agreed to pay that each year and so she came home and not only raised his child but had two others with him. They are still together today, but she was not going to do it free and lose her position in the market place. Extreme but for them it worked.
Interesting story. I like that the woman intelligently decided what she thought it would take for her to get on board with her fiance's plan then she disclosed it up front and said "take it or leave it." He probably thought about it and decided he could live with it and they both held each other to the plan.
It sounds so clinical but it was SO smart despite that! I think more couples need to sit down at the BEGINNING of the union and discuss their thoughts on where they want to see things go. Maybe even make it more of an annual physical. Gotta be on the same page!!!
Sometimes clinical is the best when we are considering our own feelings... communication is always the key to any door... did you mean to say intelligently or intellectually... I think intellectually is what applies to women... instead of an intelligent women... most are intelligent... thank you...lol... L...lol... and you are probably right when he considered the cost... it was worth it to him to spend the dollar and know he had the best... he had their mother to be close to them... and because she stood up for herself actually feels better about him and herself... I like that annual physical thing... ooo lah lah...lol... I can get on the same page uh huh uh huh...lol...lol...
What an interesting conversation...
Lapse~ The only thing that seems to be working with my husband and I and the issue of communication is going to regular counseling- once every month or two just for relationship maintenance, not because there are immediate problems but he undercommunicates and I overcommunicate so getting together with someone else ( a counselor, pastoral counelor,etc) really helps. There are so many changes throughout a relationship that it's impossible to sit down ahead of time and figure it out, even though I think premarital counseling or sitting down for the basics are a great idea. But our lives changed so much in unexpected ways that everything we sat down about has gone right out the window. I agree with getting updated on where a couple stands on things regularly in the marriage.
I think that counselor is smart of you guys. We need to do that ourselves sooner and not later. I can totally relate to that over/under communicating! I wonder if people should schedule that semi annually. :-) It has become cliche that relationships take lots of work, but then no one gives you easy answers on how to do that. Its like your car. Lots of people know a little bit about keeping their vehicle in good condition like changing the oil. But its not enough to fix anything significant when you break down! Hey I like that analogy! Marriages like cars should get "periodic maintenance!"
I hear people say marriage takes a lot of work but many don't put that work in. When they refer to work I think they're talking about how much they "put up with" (tolerate) but wouldn't it be nice to be proactive in the relationship and have regular maintenance to fix things before years go down the road and it's bigger problems and more mess so that people just end up walking away, not knowing what else to do. We do regular maintenance with our cars and our health (bodies) so why not marriages!?!
I have been in love for 42 years and married for almost 39 years... I have the great pleasure of living 24/7 with my love and that is an amazing thing... what it has done for us is make us aware that everything matters... try not to nick at one another even if you are just playing... it still hurts... and hurt unattended causes fractures, fractures causes buckling, buckling causes separations, and separations cause painful out comes... I think divorce is a new word... maybe 10,000 years old... try not to use it... it carries massive hurt and pain... we have found if every time one of us needs to talk, we stop and talk no matter how each of us feel about whether we should or not... we decided long ago that we would gift each other that one gift... the most precious gift of all... communication....
I fall short, telling her how I feel...walking by... I can't help but notice her gate... I recognize her laugh in the crowd... her fragrance compliments each garden as she walks...there just ahead.... Her wisdom... although unconventional... is a place, for me to convene....I'm in forty years...I still sigh.. catching my breathe. .. clueless on becoming one...with the one...that's been the most beautiful one.... to me...
The double standard is probably the worst part of the argument. Nailing a guy for child support is a given but being a man and getting child support is almost useless. How do you get anything from a woman on welfare with three more kids? Being an ex husband your treated like dirt even if she claims her latest kid is not yours. The court systems are so bias towards men in all cases that involve women or children. That even if you our a male and a single parent that you have no rights to even protect your children from a crazy woman. In the work place women can discriminate all day and a male has no choice but to take it. I am not talking sexual harassment that would be more favourable then just some woman who thinks she can say anything a male could never get away with saying. None the less every woman should earn as much as any man and should be allowed to do anything a man does.
Oh Sanxuary, I am so sorry you got hurt... sometimes when that divorce faucet goes on everyone gets wet... I agree that both men and women abuse power in the work place... men sometimes because they don't know any better, women sometimes to get back at what they perceive as abuse from years of working for men... we all need to grow up and realize we are from the same tribe... and you are right, the courts are behind in that they are still making judgments on how things were between men and women years ago in the work place... keep your chin up buddy, things are changing...
I never got hurt but I have seen it all. When I read the latest suicide in the paper I wonder who really killed them. I have seen strong men lose their minds and give up all hope because they were not strong enough to live in a selfish World. We create our own monsters but for those who believe in a good decent life its a crap shoot and no one grows up until its to late. What is best for the kids is protecting the family. What is good for everyone today is a vast program of Government programs of endless jobs and money to finance a legal system of legal harassment intended to make everyone a victim. We fail to educate people on life and my calling card is sanctuary. Build it in yourself, your home and every where you go. Good Luck
All men are males but not all males are men. Real men are unselfish lovers and faithful to the women they love if you have a male who cares nothing for blow jobs, can give you multiple orgasms to his one and steals your panties to sniff them thinking of you at work, you have a man. My wife knows what turns me on isn't what most men desire but it is that sweet smell of innocence mixed with a touch of naughtiness and delightful excitement that gives me a long time sexual prowess when we play stick it in. But women listen this is coming from a man, there are not too many guys who if given a choice of 10 billion dollars but the only way to get this wealth you can't have sexual relations with females ever again, how many men would pick the billions, none. What you have you can devalue gold if used that power can over take the greed in males.A pretty wife with an ample behind and helpful nature that is in love with me, I hit the lottery. Just don't look down on all of us.
I do understand that part of man, as I have a known a few men who are truly unselfish... but these were men of plenty... not all were men of money, but all were men of great wealth... each had his own worth... a woman will always take the billion.... just because of the need for security.... I do believe you are right about men giving it all for a fat bottom girl...lol.. and I don't look down on any of you... I appreciate the beauty of man... yet have become aware through the years that as you say, "Man has no power over the testosterone drive that seems to occupy his very being"... from adolessense to the grave... man is generally on the hunt...to mate... and as beautiful as that is... and sexy to almost every young woman on earth... it is also sad for all of us... for the insatiable desire to find physical satisfaction, it really has appeared to dumb him down more than the majority of women would have imagined... and that's where it may have sounded condescending... for that I am truly sorry... I just that woman will have to take a more active role from here on out to lead the world to financial freedom and to lead the world to a place of peace... man is generally reckless when it comes to spending and always likes playing war from when he is a small boy to the present day... those two things as men and women must be addressed if we are to survive as the human race...that's all I'm saying hun... no offense on my part intended...
Thanks for the honest and interesting article. I've always thought of myself as a feminist, but as a part-time working mom, I do wonder how the advances made in the ability of women to work have negatively impacted women's happiness overall. There is still a lot of work to be done - women are still paid less than men and sexism still leads to horrible outcomes like rape and abuse AND I think we need to address how to enable women to truly make choices that make them happy (not just choices that they feel forced into by society and family). A long way to go, although I would caution not to throw out the baby with the bathwater - we're better off as a society due to the feminist movement. Let's just try to iron out the fallout of the unintended consequences that come with any major cultural shift!
LauraGT~ Thank you for the comment. Having choices is the best outcome women could hope for.I don't think feminism has accomplished that but rather put us another role that many women are stuck in and thats having to work outside of home. You brought up some great points. thanks.
mjfarns Level 4 Commenter 6 months ago
As a the son of a feminist and someone who went to the college in the ultra-politically correct 1990s, I definitely agree with your thesis. Feminism is a lot like any good idea: when it starts, it's great, but then individuals agendas start to emerge and the original message becomes just one more thing that can be negotiated in the pursuit of political power.